Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

[Marshall Eubanks <[e-mail]>]

On Dec 3, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Roni Even wrote:

> If you compare flight prices, you should also check the hotel  
> prices. I
> assume that SF hotels will be more expensive than Minneapolis so the  
> overall
> stay will be more expensive.
>

In my opinion, we (for some definition of we) need to look at the  
total cost to the community of IETF activities.

Money is fungible. If we waste the community's money, it will come out  
of the IETF bucket even if it isn't on the IETF's books. The IAOC does  
a good job (IMHO) of keeping track of IETF expenses, but there is no- 
one who tries to systematically look at the total cost, including  
travel, lost time, etc.

For example, is Malta better than Frankfurt because rooms are cheaper,  
or worse because it takes 10+ hours longer (and thus a working day)  
for many participants to get there ? If the average IETFer costs their  
employer $ 500 per working day, and a meeting requires the loss of 2  
days of travel time for 500 people, that is a $ 500,000 effective  
expense that currently is not counted. Such hidden, employer or  
attendee born, expenses need to be  analyzed systematically in my  
opinion. (Maybe Malta would still be cheaper, I don't know, but my  
point is that this
should be considered.)

Marshall

> Roni
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail] 
> ] On
> Behalf Of Blaine Cook
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:45 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country
>
> I'd assume that a bigger factor than visas in this case (just guessing
> here) is cost --- $700 is an awful lot of money for people who (1) may
> not be employed by corporations with big expense budgets, (2) already
> paying upwards of $1000 to fly to the US, and (3) live in a country
> where the exchange rate and average salary make paying for things in
> USD very difficult.
>
> The ability for the IETF to comp registration fees is unmentioned
> during the registration process. As I'm new to the IETF and its
> processes and goals, I'm not going to presume anything, but the centre
> of this discussion seems to be trying to allow as many interested
> attendees as possible to attend, and therefore might be relevant.
>
> Unpaid registration in this case indicates a desire to attend, but an
> inability (not necessarily due to visa issues). The only way to find
> out why people didn't attend is to ask them.
>
> San Francisco is vastly cheaper to fly to than Minneapolis for people
> outside the US; some useful data might emerge from that. If it turns
> out that cost is the major factor, then Canadian venues make little
> sense, since it's often more expensive to fly to Canada than anywhere
> in the US.
>
> b.
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Richard Barnes <[e-mail] 
> >
> wrote:
>> Dale,
>>
>> Actually, there is a noticeable difference between CN and others: If
>> you sub-divide those 79 registrations according to who paid, you get
>> the following breakdown:
>>  Yes: 31  (39%)
>>  No: 48  (61%)
>>
>> For contrast, the breakdown for the US is as follows:
>>  Yes: 484 (91%)
>>  No: 22 (4%)
>>  Comp: 25 (4%)
>>
>> If you rank countries by the percentage of attendees that are unpaid,
>> then most countries (50 of 66) have fewer than 10% unpaid.  The
>> remaining 16 countries all have >50% unpaid; they are as follows:
>> UG, TN, SN, PH, ID, GH, GG, DZ, DO, CI, AF, IN, CG, BD, CN, AR
>> Of these, the leaders by far in GDP, population, and overall
>> registration are CN and IN.
>>
>> Assuming that those who didn't pay were those unable to attend, these
>> data could indicate a notable difference between these groups.  In
>> addition, there may also be underreported problems for Indians as
>> well.
>>
>> --Richard
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Dale Worley <[e-mail]>  
>> wrote:
>>> I've calculated these figures from the IETF web site:
>>>
>>>
>>> Rank    Country         Registered      % of total               
>>> cum. %
>>> of total
>>>
>>> 1      US              531             0.477948                 
>>> 0.477948
>>> 2      JP              97              0.0873087                
>>> 0.565257
>>> 3      CN              79              0.0711071                
>>> 0.636364
>>> 4      DE              51              0.0459046                
>>> 0.682268
>>> 5      FR              39              0.0351035                
>>> 0.717372
>>> 6      GB              30              0.0270027                
>>> 0.744374
>>> 7      SE              29              0.0261026                
>>> 0.770477
>>> 8      CA              29              0.0261026                
>>> 0.79658
>>> 9      FI              28              0.0252025                
>>> 0.821782
>>> 10      KR              22              0.019802                 
>>> 0.841584
>>> 11      NL              16              0.0144014                
>>> 0.855986
>>> 12      IT              16              0.0144014                
>>> 0.870387
>>> 13      IN              13              0.0117012                
>>> 0.882088
>>> 14      IL              12              0.0108011                
>>> 0.892889
>>> 15      AU              11              0.00990099               
>>> 0.90279
>>>
>>> Taken from https://www.ietf.org/registration/attendance.py
>>>
>>>
>>> 15 countries account for 90% of attendance (or rather,  
>>> registration).
>>>
>>> Based on GDP, the US should have about 33% of attendance, so the
>>> observed 47% is not too much above expectation.
>>>
>>> Seeing that China is 3rd on the list, with 7% of attendance, if  
>>> there
>>> are particular visa problems regarding China, some attention  
>>> should be
>>> paid to it.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/73attendees
>>>
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