Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

["Mary Barnes" <[e-mail]>]

For me being in North America, I still would not fuss about the European
meetings with sessions on Friday - in the past, I either take a hop to a
European city on Fri nite where I get a direct flight the next morning
(Sat) and get home in the afternoon/early evening on Sat, thus missing
only one extra day from home.  And, this includes arriving one day
earlier. However, I personally find that one additional day is nice to
get over the jetlag and see the city (particularly since we've been to
some great ones).   Also, even for folks from NA, there is likely not a
consistent position - for east coast folks - the travel time is
virtually identical to western Europe/UK as it is for West Coast.  
 
So, I do agree, perhaps on average folks lose an extra day when they
travel outside their own country, there are pros and cons either way and
it's clear from this thread, that is completely impossible to please
everyone. It is completely and totally YMMV and very, very individual.
 
Mary. 

________________________________

From: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:02 PM
To: [e-mail]; Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00); [e-mail]
Subject: RE: RE: [73attendees] Attendance by country


The statistics are fast approaching the point where an equal number of
the people who write drafts (i.e. the people who do the work) come from
Europe as opposed to North America.
 
Show me any flight that leaves San Francisco at any time and gets to
anywhere in Europe on the same calendar day. There isn't one. Do the
sums and you will work out why.
 
Point: People are continuing to argue that the meetings are in North
America and the participants come from North America and adopting timing
preferences to suite. If you are North American participant, start
thinking about your preferred meeting schedule if all the meetings were
in Europe. Living in Europe, I'd be quite happy with the current
schedule and be able to get to all the meetings with minimum impingement
on weekends. 
 
I lose the best part of two weekends for every North American based IETF
meeting. I have no sympathy (and very little tolerance) for people
complaining about losing half a day.
 
regards
 
Keith


________________________________

	From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] 
	Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM
	To: Mary Barnes; Phillip Hallam-Baker; DRAGE, Keith (Keith);
[e-mail]
	Subject: Re: RE: [73attendees] Attendance by country
	
	
	Most of the single parent folk I know actually have an easier
time of it since they are sharing custody of the children with another
party who is anxious for as much contact with them as possible. Dumping
the kids on the ex for a week is usually an available option. 
	
	Also the age of the children is rather significant as is the
effect that dad being away has on their behavior. 
	
	I don't think that the IETF should be entirely indifferent to
the personal lives of participants as you appear to suggest. Most IETF
participants can find alternative jobs even in a down economy - although
the crisis of the past few months is something of an exception. But I
really don't want to be placing volunteers with a choice between
participation and their job unnecessarily. And I suspect that those of
us who are full time corporate representatives are a minority in any
case. And even if that were not the case, we are not recognized as such
in IETF process. 
	
	If we are going to argue for making meeting times on the
assumption that this is a job then we should carry that assumption over
to other areas. If we are going to continue to be a volunteer
organization then we should encourage widespread participation by
chosing meeting times than minimize impact on personal life as much as
possible. It is not going to be possible to satisfy everyone everytime.
But I don't see why the fact that some people are going to chose to
travel on the weekend should oblige everyone else to. Or the fact that
you have to get up for a 6am flight in SFO to make it back to Europe the
same day argues for holding meetings on the Friday. 
	
	On Dec 4, 2008 11:29am, Mary Barnes <[e-mail]>
wrote: 
	> 
	> Again, 
	> 
	> a YMMV issue.  Having spent 14 years in a both parent's
working household 
	> (and now being in a single parent household), this is still
not such a 
	> significant issue. In my experience, it's actually a bigger
issue in a household 
	> where the mother is a SAHM because they rarely get a break.
And, yes, I 
	> know this is a controversial point. When I was at Telecom '99,
which required 
	> more than two full weekends away, the guys were fussing as 
	> the SAHM wives back home were complaining about all the 
	> family issues without the Dad home for support and they were
really 
	> taken aback when I told them that the job that the moms were
doing was far more 
	> stressful than anything we were dealing with on a daily basis,
particularly 
	> when you consider most of us have opportunities of enjoying at
least one nice 
	> meal and we usually have someone that makes our beds daily,
etc.  There is 
	> research that shows that the stress levels of mothers
(determined by both 
	> questionnaires and blood tests of hormones impacted by stress)
is equivalent to 
	> that of a soldier on the front lines of a war.

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