Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

["DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" <[e-mail]>]

The statistics are fast approaching the point where an equal number of the people who write drafts (i.e. the people who do the work) come from Europe as opposed to North America.
 
Show me any flight that leaves San Francisco at any time and gets to anywhere in Europe on the same calendar day. There isn't one. Do the sums and you will work out why.
 
Point: People are continuing to argue that the meetings are in North America and the participants come from North America and adopting timing preferences to suite. If you are North American participant, start thinking about your preferred meeting schedule if all the meetings were in Europe. Living in Europe, I'd be quite happy with the current schedule and be able to get to all the meetings with minimum impingement on weekends. 
 
I lose the best part of two weekends for every North American based IETF meeting. I have no sympathy (and very little tolerance) for people complaining about losing half a day.
 
regards
 
Keith


________________________________

	From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] 
	Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM
	To: Mary Barnes; Phillip Hallam-Baker; DRAGE, Keith (Keith); [e-mail]
	Subject: Re: RE: [73attendees] Attendance by country
	
	
	Most of the single parent folk I know actually have an easier time of it since they are sharing custody of the children with another party who is anxious for as much contact with them as possible. Dumping the kids on the ex for a week is usually an available option. 
	
	Also the age of the children is rather significant as is the effect that dad being away has on their behavior. 
	
	I don't think that the IETF should be entirely indifferent to the personal lives of participants as you appear to suggest. Most IETF participants can find alternative jobs even in a down economy - although the crisis of the past few months is something of an exception. But I really don't want to be placing volunteers with a choice between participation and their job unnecessarily. And I suspect that those of us who are full time corporate representatives are a minority in any case. And even if that were not the case, we are not recognized as such in IETF process. 
	
	If we are going to argue for making meeting times on the assumption that this is a job then we should carry that assumption over to other areas. If we are going to continue to be a volunteer organization then we should encourage widespread participation by chosing meeting times than minimize impact on personal life as much as possible. It is not going to be possible to satisfy everyone everytime. But I don't see why the fact that some people are going to chose to travel on the weekend should oblige everyone else to. Or the fact that you have to get up for a 6am flight in SFO to make it back to Europe the same day argues for holding meetings on the Friday. 
	
	On Dec 4, 2008 11:29am, Mary Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote: 
	> 
	> Again, 
	> 
	> a YMMV issue.  Having spent 14 years in a both parent's working household 
	> (and now being in a single parent household), this is still not such a 
	> significant issue. In my experience, it's actually a bigger issue in a household 
	> where the mother is a SAHM because they rarely get a break.  And, yes, I 
	> know this is a controversial point. When I was at Telecom '99, which required 
	> more than two full weekends away, the guys were fussing as 
	> the SAHM wives back home were complaining about all the 
	> family issues without the Dad home for support and they were really 
	> taken aback when I told them that the job that the moms were doing was far more 
	> stressful than anything we were dealing with on a daily basis, particularly 
	> when you consider most of us have opportunities of enjoying at least one nice 
	> meal and we usually have someone that makes our beds daily, etc.  There is 
	> research that shows that the stress levels of mothers (determined by both 
	> questionnaires and blood tests of hormones impacted by stress) is equivalent to 
	> that of a soldier on the front lines of a war.

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