Re: New-comers (was Re: the old fellowship program)

Ole Jacobsen <> Fri, 16 April 2021 05:12 UTC

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Subject: Re: New-comers (was Re: the old fellowship program)
From: Ole Jacobsen <>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:12:40 -0700
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To: Andrew Sullivan <>
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+1000 to what both Andrew and John has said!

But I think this discussion has assumed that newcomers are
necessarily looking to get directly involved with a working group
from Day One and therefore need to do a lot of homework and
preparation. I know we keep telling the world that the IETF is "not
a conference" and that "people come here to work," but I see no harm
in simply exploring what the IETF is all about and then perhaps
getting involved in a particular effort after some time, after
having attended a few meetings, and most of all after having made
friends and even discovered who to avoid! :-)

Speaking as a Professional IETF Lurker with exactly 100 meetings
under my belt, I may not be your typical attendee, but I am surely
not the only person who participates in the IETF mostly to "learn what
is going on" and perhaps get involved in some projects or protocols
from time to time, and above all keep in touch with colleagues from
all over the world/industry. I have written exactly two RFCs and that
was a very long time ago, but some of you may remember other activities
that I have contributed to over the years.

If newcomers risk being "snarled at" it is only due to our own
culture and abusive behavior and not due to their lack of preparation.
or coaching.


> On Apr 15, 2021, at 20:17, Andrew Sullivan <> wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
> I work for the Internet Society, but I must emphasise that I do not
> post in that capacity; neither does this represent the position of the
> Internet Society.
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 09:34:20PM -0400, Keith Moore wrote:
>> The other is to teach newcomers what they need to know to not be snarled at.   They're not mutually exclusive.
> Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, but only a culture of
> entitled self-indulgent old fools who are going to die out due to the
> inevitable ravages of age would suppose that the right approach to
> possible newcomers is to beat them long enough that their morale
> improves.  If that is really the future of the IETF, then I regret any
> association I have ever had with it.  What a horrifying plan!  The
> IETF is simply not that important, and if you think this is the way to
> embrace the future I urge you that perhaps you might listen
> (presumably again) to Dylan's "The Times They Are A-Changin'".
> Best regards,
> A
> -- 
> Andrew Sullivan

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher
The Internet Protocol Journal
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