Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds
Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> Fri, 25 March 2022 18:20 UTC
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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 14:20:05 -0400
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To: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>, Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>, Leif Johansson <leifj@sunet.se>
Cc: "113attendees@ietf.org" <113attendees@ietf.org>, Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu>
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds
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Like how we set about resolving the different positions espoused in rfcs 1597 and 1627... Ah, life, and the IETF, seemed so simple back then... On 3/25/22 14:03, Mike Bishop wrote: > Indeed. The number of passionate disagreements that can be solved by > "The four people who care are going to go have lunch, then present a > consensus position at tomorrow's session" cannot be understated. In > virtual land, the arguments stretch on for weeks or months. > > Sent from Nine <http://www.9folders.com/> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Friday, March 25, 2022 1:59 PM > *To:* Leif Johansson > *Cc:* 113attendees@ietf.org; Wes Hardaker > *Subject:* Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 3:36 PM Leif Johansson <leifj@sunet.se> wrote: > > I'm suggesting that there might come a time (soon probably) where > there are no obstacles to travel > > but the technology is "good enough" for remote *execpt* for all the > reasons the IETF is more than > > a set of WGs... > > > > At that point we should either give up on f2f entirely (and I think > give up on the IETF as something > > more than the I-Ds it produces) *OR* figure out another reason for > people to want to travel. > > As my experience this week was completely different, I - rather > selfishly, indeed - hope that your proposal wouldn't be implemented > any time soon. > In the last 5 days I managed to make more progress than in the last 2 > years and I can't wait for Philadelphia already. > IMHO IETF f2f meetings are a great example of holism, when the whole > is greater than the sum of its parts. > It's not about presenting a draft during a WG session or having a > meeting/drink with colleagues. It's also about having the latter right > after the former - while energy and enthusiasm are still high. The > sessions and presentations give us food for thoughts and discussions > between sessions (so IMHO we shall have much longer breaks). > > For me there is another benefit of f2f meetings, even if not everyone > is here. There are WGs which I'm actively participating in (well, at > least I try..) - during the virtual meetings I was joining those > sessions even if it was 2am my time. But there are many other sessions > which I found very educational, and I did learn a lot this week by > attending them. It's a completely different story for virtual IETFs > though - I just can't afford attending everything I'm curious about.. > > To sum it up: I wish there were more people, but still this IETF is > the best one for me since 2020. > > > > -- > SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry > > -- > 113attendees mailing list > 113attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/113attendees > -- Standard Robert Moskowitz Owner HTT Consulting C:248-219-2059 F:248-968-2824 E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
- [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both… Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Wes Hardaker
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Jan-Frederik Rieckers
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Göran Selander
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Henk Birkholz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joris Baum
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Antoine FRESSANCOURT
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Jen Linkova
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Mike Bishop
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … sburleig.sb
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Azael Fernandez Alcantara
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … John Levine
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ira McDonald
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Bob Hinden
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … David Waite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hyb… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Yoav Nir
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Martin.Horneffer
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Yoav Nir
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Kyle Rose
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dan Romascanu
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Jay Daley
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Lars Eggert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Benoit Claise
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Tero Kivinen
- [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hyb… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Tero Kivinen
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dean Bogdanovic
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Wes Hardaker
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Benson Muite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Douglass
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… David Waite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Pete Resnick