[113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds
Leif Johansson <leifj@sunet.se> Fri, 25 March 2022 13:34 UTC
Return-Path: <leifj@sunet.se>
X-Original-To: 113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD63A125E for <113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:34:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sunet.se
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQhkCATERKue for <113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com (mail-pg1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D8853A125D for <113attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id s72so6451099pgc.5 for <113attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sunet.se; s=google; h=message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:to:content-language:from :subject:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dWMf37LrKE5fiQCnFpQ2hv/T4LnvpVX6l5nVukwj+dw=; b=RSR+ElOF5JcgL32C9HeQ6E4NNolma7/GlBkhHM36e0x9HCddDV/uK/OvFSIwvK25Uv KTqzuI1BP35gZzqAm/97zBcWNQDUKYjXX5028iHF+0fan9T4112Zg9wQcioh9aXt+ZI9 0trhVN2EcTOkRnu4CNwG+ux5mgoqWfGBgyYjHJVCcUi4EY0lpVT5CdoImQFTms2NjdOE Xj1ZAB7zqHSLTWawZQsovvQ+jpdRBViwJFUeGdDdkfw3ELVqpCmnEPYmNoiGTuIx81hV /4kf93HhrIbF43X0mN6W/1S6Bi52l4nooEaNzL1UT+c+838Xmcw0fyzBA4vfN5ADOIjH /N7Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:to :content-language:from:subject:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dWMf37LrKE5fiQCnFpQ2hv/T4LnvpVX6l5nVukwj+dw=; b=fsunxd++UGNek81vRRSlTK4ZtcMAaKNQJlngH2xBm1ZeNJRF+FVjHu8LFR5gqVQZ1Z Y6wBTSNz6JLruuw9tXUlTnCKqaYz5HrdJWknaIwzZapoUdZ5gtJvbGu0iuNr8LKuQ/tV GAsD7nbQecVMqgM6JWIGjCjuwhuS4tSfVdeAqap2GfcuochQu5bHaw0IMiKy8uri0Fcx sG4tcmnQrXSYPLC2gTcljQi50JOsHV9vozE6JfQZ4cd0JWTUJFS8jFdlxIvjZ6tB/iyd +ZCxYmtik/IerrW7KU/OiIAWJ3qOya2NlAPFAjehLhRhtssGab0utIDmVuHxXThwB1ua e9yQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533h+erZCh09uYkB7vx0UXOiJYiREPuaEMC+9rlyOLB1JIHzcvze zmdYTjjRLIgXd7DZzS4kxbFsnDt9AqbwP5islnc=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz5U3IghGm3sbg2jaoqVlsig1qbaacOFZqr0N/C1vJOOyovZ+o2rsrKFo35bl0+OKip8Ovq3g==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:8cc:b0:4bc:3def:b616 with SMTP id s12-20020a056a0008cc00b004bc3defb616mr10332915pfu.18.1648215286920; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2001:67c:370:128:d83d:e17b:496f:1f5c? ([2001:67c:370:128:d83d:e17b:496f:1f5c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 73-20020a62194c000000b004fab3b767ccsm7686239pfz.216.2022.03.25.06.34.45 for <113attendees@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <91b2da16-46e1-2370-d0f9-786934637c09@sunet.se>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 14:34:43 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0
To: 113attendees@ietf.org
Content-Language: en-US
From: Leif Johansson <leifj@sunet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/113attendees/HJfLoZviwv_gENSwl4zKxCROcgw>
Subject: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds
X-BeenThere: 113attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list for IETF 113 attendees <113attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/113attendees>, <mailto:113attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/113attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:113attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:113attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/113attendees>, <mailto:113attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:34:54 -0000
I spent the week onsite in Wienna... As usual the arrangements are great and the local host made this a very nice experience. And then there is the hybrid meeting thing... imo hybrid works well as technology and completely sucks on a human level. This statement may be controversial and/or unpopular in the IETF where we're all about the tech but... - hybrid means there is not enough folks onsite to create critical mass for the "hallway track" - remote-participation is arguably better for the technical WG process than onsite at this point - remote is really bad for the informal discussions (gather is very disappointing imo) The most efficient WG were where most of the contributurs had decided to show up onsite. The most important discussions I had were (as usual) not in a WG meeting. Maybe the IETF needs to rehink the purpouse of onsite meetings. We have made the remote experience so good that the "professionalized" aspect of churning out RFCs doesn't really need onsite. However, an IETF with no human interaction might be professional but it won't be efficient. Cheers Leif
- [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both… Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Wes Hardaker
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Jan-Frederik Rieckers
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Göran Selander
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Henk Birkholz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joris Baum
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Antoine FRESSANCOURT
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Jen Linkova
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Mike Bishop
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … sburleig.sb
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Azael Fernandez Alcantara
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … John Levine
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ira McDonald
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Bob Hinden
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … David Waite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hyb… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Yoav Nir
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Martin.Horneffer
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Yoav Nir
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Kyle Rose
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dan Romascanu
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Jay Daley
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Lars Eggert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Benoit Claise
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Tero Kivinen
- [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hyb… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Tero Kivinen
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dean Bogdanovic
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Wes Hardaker
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Benson Muite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Douglass
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… David Waite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Pete Resnick