Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds
Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com> Fri, 25 March 2022 17:59 UTC
Return-Path: <furry13@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: 113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C9D3A1757 for <113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 3.143
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.143 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tAQaht6qnGS8 for <113attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com (mail-ej1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D32353A1762 for <113attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id qx21so16821312ejb.13 for <113attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4d1tge1VDFuJawUNgG73eUyK+cCqIYzEqeRWutJgKHM=; b=Q5xpsTWaIvpHp/xcf/ojmexjMMXrxdZBmC+2gny1QcLOI+CBSJ0dEKMOdRh/oYIxRL CaONyuNI9dWwffyX/VYcVEHIm5WDXkZMm7GhjkUAWEhsyJpa6Sctgv85S9/fe2DI7SLw DxwGR7qcsQ4gVzdPrzCohpQgTK62c7uvryWvFLV5JHMtRFEB4McHBLHCuBy5HCr+5cZH zCnoOlpLZ47X6DQwhhLNtG2/Ran1E7CmD8I4kIWpYQWvcxUT5628O3cFrg2/MqBJtdF7 z95ICKGHY/eRfgnLxkdv6V92VvYrnG/XuLEDAXYbYR7U0ydyOOc2mc+LEJUSniYxbkOb bc3g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4d1tge1VDFuJawUNgG73eUyK+cCqIYzEqeRWutJgKHM=; b=vwespgCHbWj2pmxUqag+T3IbcXakA2q1YsaElljuREA6A+AL2/8jKN0YwwLvEY1iGg SrDYaho7cGu1uTTYFrzA1V1sqTWCnbOxPLlbY0zzBhRZlnof7mqy22wZuHb3Ij9LmrBr 0bGhTZHX7BcRRsXIWUjXq777LfIxTVbT/10jkJ/4Ci50BB7zB8DnygvXsOtO6UFt7nSz dqVFsn8lvYycZRgFSxMhdB4A1ZRCTn7HJ348K5wbUFPu5Jiyfaxu0mAz9jSxatrAjCeO DRtUrfrpZA2wPaS3WMDLolk8+N4dZaXWvfcE+QspY8tB6civ0IC33UY6KMxDDjZ7RBa3 ujsg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532phIOUHGBrntQISFYjaMndLbKiyOMNV+L40jXeVAwPqEeC4M/L EGetbJz/0VogI1vwAKtQ+5L0qGuK38jO3GCe8RQAX8D0kJaaXeUX
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJztWrGw4efQ7HDqGKErq0o3UnycxesOTNzpIhLcguZ59/pm3hAC8o/siDRjmGueZveE8kd850xSCHqyCcm1uDg=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7b9d:b0:6df:fb8f:fe82 with SMTP id ne29-20020a1709077b9d00b006dffb8ffe82mr12873131ejc.652.1648231151541; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <91b2da16-46e1-2370-d0f9-786934637c09@sunet.se> <CANk3-ND6Hu5=fPskucoQKOCxAgwXBO9QuhQBoJBky8F5wOwemg@mail.gmail.com> <bcf800fc-2b89-1d9e-eaea-22432efdd4a8@sunet.se>
In-Reply-To: <bcf800fc-2b89-1d9e-eaea-22432efdd4a8@sunet.se>
From: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 18:58:59 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFU7BATNVKDY4xSrT5e-xbqLF98aaBs4yqhVFg-C5s5KG7-XTA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Johansson <leifj@sunet.se>
Cc: Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu>, 113attendees@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/113attendees/pR0c4bLoTP0Vvqsl_IeRzPjOSg8>
Subject: Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds
X-BeenThere: 113attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list for IETF 113 attendees <113attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/113attendees>, <mailto:113attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/113attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:113attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:113attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/113attendees>, <mailto:113attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:59:18 -0000
On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 3:36 PM Leif Johansson <leifj@sunet.se> wrote: > I'm suggesting that there might come a time (soon probably) where there are no obstacles to travel > but the technology is "good enough" for remote *execpt* for all the reasons the IETF is more than > a set of WGs... > > At that point we should either give up on f2f entirely (and I think give up on the IETF as something > more than the I-Ds it produces) *OR* figure out another reason for people to want to travel. As my experience this week was completely different, I - rather selfishly, indeed - hope that your proposal wouldn't be implemented any time soon. In the last 5 days I managed to make more progress than in the last 2 years and I can't wait for Philadelphia already. IMHO IETF f2f meetings are a great example of holism, when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It's not about presenting a draft during a WG session or having a meeting/drink with colleagues. It's also about having the latter right after the former - while energy and enthusiasm are still high. The sessions and presentations give us food for thoughts and discussions between sessions (so IMHO we shall have much longer breaks). For me there is another benefit of f2f meetings, even if not everyone is here. There are WGs which I'm actively participating in (well, at least I try..) - during the virtual meetings I was joining those sessions even if it was 2am my time. But there are many other sessions which I found very educational, and I did learn a lot this week by attending them. It's a completely different story for virtual IETFs though - I just can't afford attending everything I'm curious about.. To sum it up: I wish there were more people, but still this IETF is the best one for me since 2020. -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry
- [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both… Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Wes Hardaker
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Jan-Frederik Rieckers
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Göran Selander
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Henk Birkholz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joris Baum
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Antoine FRESSANCOURT
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Jen Linkova
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Mike Bishop
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … sburleig.sb
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Azael Fernandez Alcantara
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … John Levine
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ira McDonald
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Bob Hinden
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … David Waite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hyb… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Yoav Nir
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … NA-NiC
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Martin.Horneffer
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Yoav Nir
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Leif Johansson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Kyle Rose
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dan Romascanu
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Jay Daley
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Lars Eggert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Benoit Claise
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Tero Kivinen
- [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hyb… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Tero Kivinen
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dean Bogdanovic
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Wes Hardaker
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Benson Muite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Douglass
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… David Waite
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Michael Richardson
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Ted Lemon
- Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of … Pete Resnick