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Re: Effective discourse in the IETF

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Wed, 03 July 2019 22:53 UTC

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From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Effective discourse in the IETF
Thread-Topic: Effective discourse in the IETF
Thread-Index: AQHVMa2hQ/CjTR2R2Ua4enh3iaIkgqa5Q8iAgAAtvgCAAAqqAIAABtKAgAADDoCAAATkgP//wO0AgABIYID//+yPAA==
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 22:53:10 +0000
Message-ID: <A2F008A8-C314-41E2-A6DE-37FFFDFA8111@akamai.com>
References: <20190628232206.GC10013@kduck.mit.edu> <e7bf71c3-7842-8699-1f56-36ffa823da99@comcast.net> <20190701223914.GK13810@kduck.mit.edu> <bad99f11-0d66-4aba-72ef-b4b648470753@comcast.net> <34A581FE-BCFA-4FDD-A626-372E036BD79A@cooperw.in> <20190703125524.GB98598@verdi> <c24b3857-fa3e-46a9-f55b-dd160250f290@acm.org> <2807ff5a-7fd3-65cc-5574-ae05df6c622c@acm.org> <20190703141309.GX49950@hanna.meerval.net> <F86FDC5A-AF66-492E-A1FC-678486C26065@fugue.com> <20190703151443.GA49950@hanna.meerval.net> <ce29c166-bdb6-c441-8104-632541b1f12d@network-heretics.com> <7acee776-8dce-294c-6261-8d5c65ce46f7@gmail.com> <98d40a67-7cc5-182a-a203-4b1d06c18917@network-heretics.com> <7F0C529A-AEE8-4F13-B9FD-603CBE034E1C@nohats.ca> <b1dc1fd0-f2a7-3a2a-7907-02ec82a9cfb7@network-heretics.com> <0391A115-A766-47B6-BE7C-D6450934595C@akamai.com> <c7f0cd11-ce96-f2a9-9e0d-bb9f03f1bade@network-heretics.com>
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>    But I really don't think this is a matter of choosing whether or not to 
    *be* impolite, it's about the *perception* of [im]politeness. 

I strongly disagree with this.  The phrase "perception of impoliteness" implies that any fault is not with the speaker, but rather with those who might be offended. The speaker is blameless, it's just your "perception."

>   But perceptions of impoliteness 
    do serve as barriers to raising such issues, and I think we need to 
    lower those barriers to the extent possible.
    
I disagree with this even more strongly. The implication is that all we need to do is teach everyone how descend to the uncivil level of discourse that used to be acceptable.  I maintain it no longer is. You seem to believe that it's just in my head.  I guess time will tell who's right.

	/r$

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