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Re: Effective discourse in the IETF

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Wed, 03 July 2019 19:29 UTC

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Subject: Re: Effective discourse in the IETF
To: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
References: <20190628232206.GC10013@kduck.mit.edu> <e7bf71c3-7842-8699-1f56-36ffa823da99@comcast.net> <20190701223914.GK13810@kduck.mit.edu> <bad99f11-0d66-4aba-72ef-b4b648470753@comcast.net> <34A581FE-BCFA-4FDD-A626-372E036BD79A@cooperw.in> <20190703125524.GB98598@verdi> <c24b3857-fa3e-46a9-f55b-dd160250f290@acm.org> <2807ff5a-7fd3-65cc-5574-ae05df6c622c@acm.org> <20190703141309.GX49950@hanna.meerval.net> <F86FDC5A-AF66-492E-A1FC-678486C26065@fugue.com> <20190703151443.GA49950@hanna.meerval.net> <ce29c166-bdb6-c441-8104-632541b1f12d@network-heretics.com> <7acee776-8dce-294c-6261-8d5c65ce46f7@gmail.com> <98d40a67-7cc5-182a-a203-4b1d06c18917@network-heretics.com> <7F0C529A-AEE8-4F13-B9FD-603CBE034E1C@nohats.ca>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 15:29:27 -0400
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On 7/3/19 3:11 PM, Paul Wouters wrote:

>> On Jul 3, 2019, at 15:01, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:
>>
>>>    It is not necessary to be brutally honest at all times to get good technical work done.  But it is necessary to be able to be brutally honest, for that kind of input to be tolerated and respected
> Brutality does not garnish respect.

"Brutally honest" is an idiom, not an accurate description.   The point 
is, there are times when you need to err on the side of honesty, rather 
than out of any perceptions of politeness.

And sure, some people have more skill than others at getting their point 
across without pressing others' buttons.   And we could probably all 
become more skilled at that.   But do we want to exclude all input from 
those less-skilled individuals until they gain more skill?   (To me it 
seems like that would be like saying "Sorry, we're going to publish this 
RFC with this identified technical flaw because we think you were 
impolite in your attempts to raise awareness of the issue.")

Keith

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