Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation
Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Wed, 19 June 2019 14:45 UTC
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Subject: Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <685B34F6-E0E2-4050-B9DD-615F475F62B7@encrypted.net> <58D30A55-FB45-476B-997F-1D9D58E89AE0@gmail.com> <A24BDAB9-B118-4A8A-A6DF-D2094ABF3E33@neilson.net.nz> <e4251435-b786-4bb4-0065-c76bc96f1eeb@gmail.com> <989B1B67-78B4-4CF3-BDD7-701F297880D3@neilson.net.nz> <cdcaf342-618a-c148-6864-59b4f8ee7f6b@gmail.com>
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:45:31 -0400
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On 6/19/2019 1:24 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > They seem to have pre-announced there would be no second renewal. That is not a normal way of doing business, to my mind. Especially doing so 2.5 years in advance. That seems to be a bad business practice to lock yourself (or your successors actually) into a set of actions 2 years into the future. And seriously, I've done dozens of RFP like actions over the years during my time with the US DOD - there's not a lot of "refining" that needs to be done, or that can't be done during the process of the RFP (clarifications and precisions process). Hmm. What do the LLC minutes say about this? Where would we look? And nominally, the IAB gave themselves oversight over the RFC process with their original charter, but we've since gone through the IAOC and LLC processes. Given that neither the IAB nor the RSOC is a contracting entity, I'm unclear why they are making the decision on renewal without community input to the LLC? Later, Mike > > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > On 19-Jun-19 17:19, Alexander Neilson wrote: >> Hi Brian >> >> Just to quibble on one point. >> >> The term is for two years with two possibly extensions if mutually agreed. >> >> So in this case it sounds like the intention was signalled to take up one renewal option by one party and the other decided not to take a renewal. >> >> I don’t think it is any signal of unreliability. The term itself is almost at its conclusion. The contract considered an option to extend which has not been taken up. >> >> Regards >> Alexander >> >> Alexander Neilson >> Neilson Productions Limited >> 021 329 681 >> alexander@neilson.net.nz >> >>> On 19/06/2019, at 16:46, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Well, I'm confused too. It's not as if the house was burning down, except that now it is. >>> >>> What Sarah's message didn't make quite clear is that the 2021 re-bid would be two years early, given that the full term of the current contract ends 6 years from 1/1/2018. (https://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/RSE-2018-Independent-Contractor-24Oct17-Public.pdf, >>> Clause 3 "TERM"). In other words the RSOC and/or IAB had already decided to truncate the contract. This makes us (legally personified as IETF LLC) look like an unreliable business partner. >>> >>> So what precipitated this disruption? From my point of view, everything was running well, even if occasionally some nominal target numbers were missed; it's great to have a series editor who actually has appropriate professional knowledge and experience, unlike all her predecessors. So the decision to prematurely run a bidding process seems to have been a really bad idea. Something about ain't broke, don't fix. The attempted fix has apparently caused serious breakage. This deserves a transparent explanation to the community. >>> >>> The phrase "expressly for the purposes of refining our RFP process" literally makes no sense to me as an explanation for breaking off a satisfactory contract. If there's something wrong with our RFP process, we seem to have thrown away almost all the time available to improve it, given that the normal date for the rebid would be sometime in 2023. That seems like the exact opposite of what the community needed from the RSOC and the IAB. >>> >>> Regards >>> Brian Carpenter >>> >>>> On 19-Jun-19 15:55, Alexander Neilson wrote: >>>> I may be wrong but I read it as meaning a renewal of the current contract to allow time to refine the process and that new process would be the structure the RFP for a new contractor went out under. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Alexander >>>> >>>> Alexander Neilson >>>> Neilson Productions Limited >>>> 021 329 681 >>>> alexander@neilson.net.nz <mailto:alexander@neilson.net.nz> >>>> >>>>> On 19/06/2019, at 14:52, Aaron Falk <aaron.falk@gmail.com <mailto:aaron.falk@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I’m not sure whether my question below should be addressed to the RSOC, IAB, IETF Exec Dir, or IETF LLC, so maybe one of them will enlighten me. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding >>>>> >>>>> Although the RSOC had recommended renewing the RFC Series Editor (RSE) contract for another two years, and then put the contract back out to bid in 2021 expressly for the purposes of refining our RFP process >>>>> >>>>> I’m wondering what exactly it means to put a contract out to bid “to refine the RFP process”. For example, is someone bidding on the RSE contract supposed to assume they are just providing information and not actually going to be a candidate for the award? (Is that even legal?) Or, should we presume that this is an actual competition for the RSE work? I can’t understand how you can solicit bids for the RSE but say is is just to refine the process. Can someone explain this curious wording? >>>>> >>>>> If the goal is to replace the current RSE, perhaps someone can explain why. >>>>> >>>>> --aaron >>>>>
- RFC Series Editor Resignation Sarah B
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Aaron Falk
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Terry Manderson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alexander Neilson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Terry Manderson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alexander Neilson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alexander Neilson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Stewart Bryant
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Kyle Rose
- Re: [IAB] RFC Series Editor Resignation Ted Hardie
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Eliot Lear
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Ted Hardie
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation John Levine
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Ted Lemon
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Mike StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Allison Mankin
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Jared Mauch
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Ted Hardie
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- RE: RFC Series Editor Resignation Adrian Farrel
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Toerless Eckert
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IAB] RFC Series Editor Resignation Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Leif Johansson
- RE: RFC Series Editor Resignation Roni Even (A)
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Leif Johansson
- RE: RFC Series Editor Resignation Roni Even (A)
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Carsten Bormann
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Stan Kalisch
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Ted Lemon
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Livingood, Jason
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Theodore Ts'o
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Theodore Ts'o
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Nick Hilliard
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation S Moonesamy
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alissa Cooper
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation John Leslie
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Scott O. Bradner
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alissa Cooper
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Scott O. Bradner
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Series… John C Klensin
- Re: Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Se… Russ Housley
- Re: Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Se… Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Theodore Ts'o
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Job Snijders
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Kyle Rose
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Richard Barnes
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Job Snijders
- Re: Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Se… Mary B
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Jared Mauch
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Kathleen Moriarty
- communication styles (was Re: RFC Series Editor R… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Dave Cridland
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Bob Hinden
- Re: Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Se… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Salz, Rich
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Jari Arkko
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alissa Cooper
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Melinda Shore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Melinda Shore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Paul Wouters
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Se… John C Klensin
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Salz, Rich
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Choices or language and tone (was: Re: RFC Se… Richard Barnes
- RE: Effective discourse in the IETF Eric Gray
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Randy Bush
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Tim Bray
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Melinda Shore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Salz, Rich
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Salz, Rich
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Stephen Farrell
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Salz, Rich
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Choices or language and tone Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Michael Richardson
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Richard Barnes
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Pete Resnick
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Miles Fidelman
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Pete Resnick
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF S Moonesamy
- RE: Effective discourse in the IETF Eric Gray
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Marc Petit-Huguenin
- RE: Effective discourse in the IETF Eric Gray
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Keith Moore
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Randy Bush
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- RE: Effective discourse in the IETF Eric Gray
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- RE: Effective discourse in the IETF Eric Gray
- Re: Effective discourse in the IETF Ted Lemon
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Hector Santos
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Hector Santos
- Re: RFC Series Editor Resignation Alexandre Petrescu