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RE: Effective discourse in the IETF

Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com> Wed, 03 July 2019 19:56 UTC

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From: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
CC: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Effective discourse in the IETF
Thread-Topic: Effective discourse in the IETF
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Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 19:56:18 +0000
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😊  What a funny piece of E-Mail!  See my responses starting with "EG >" below...



-----Original Message-----
From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Paul Wouters
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 3:12 PM
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Effective discourse in the IETF







> On Jul 3, 2019, at 15:01, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com<mailto:moore@network-heretics.com>> wrote:

>

>>   It is not necessary to be brutally honest at all times to get good technical work done.  But it is necessary to be able to be brutally honest, for that kind of input to be tolerated and respected



Brutality does not garnish respect.



EG >  normally, I suspect the word intended would be "garner" - but "garnish" is so much more humorous.



>> even when it's unsettling.     It's hard enough to stand up in the face of social pressure even when the culture tolerates dissent, and this already happens too rarely in IETF even though the culture does tolerate it to some degree.



Being brutally treated causes me more unsettlement than any kind spoken, well meaning, properly argued disagreement with me.



EG> Being "brutally treated"  in an E-Mail exchange is at once easy and difficult; being critical  of someone's ideas in an E-mail often seems more painful than it was intended to be.



I hope we can all improve on our dispute handling. I surely can improve a lot, and by what I am reading above here, it seems you could improve your experience at and for the IETF as well.



EG> at the risk of being politically incorrect, Amen to that...



Paul

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