Re: [v6ops] Vicious circle [ULA precedence [Thoughts about wider operational input]]

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Tue, 03 May 2022 01:03 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5336FC157902; Mon, 2 May 2022 18:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.095
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wLpcUZT4ZeqC; Mon, 2 May 2022 18:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11A7EC15E3EA; Mon, 2 May 2022 18:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C721B38DD9; Mon, 2 May 2022 21:15:58 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id tvjoo-gU6F5U; Mon, 2 May 2022 21:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D1C38DD6; Mon, 2 May 2022 21:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1651540557; bh=0LiXks8kVLFJ4Uacw4y9YglW6OhY8HQxrFy+cYQQAZA=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Rp8Jg8e1uWcUn+Cvt/+/NTz4vsu4ra/bm/I8EmpTLF4CBadKsXOMLu9gS9vbLhoSm GGTq8oUdz3JpaN4Ep5CmHPIX19gEGrXqCWT2Stwo0YkXAkyFGieT0jjbfmyLLGhmh8 JjHkDdVSDK+AZLgl/iyE9QFhdlyWL7gc0T9/zEJ0VVHqWv5UEVFznow31HZ4XnHnFg 9jJmmv/sI2Ag3j77nviTuifBcwCuGP9Sz4/FLKbd/kVEuWUfXOE6/cnVX9k0coXv5E GClJIvKpY4aIheQQTO8Hxa7KuaIS31mxlZSJ93lKHSmDqHPAAdQXSjx7L/piLfOByy lz3omFI56dlkg==
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE9C277; Mon, 2 May 2022 21:02:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, v6ops@ietf.org, 6man list <ipv6@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <d785429a-59f5-42db-3c33-39861b985910@gmail.com>
References: <CAM5+tA8WvjvWirxqE6kQ9LQAG0NcpWyCLGVooB=G7gZ9ETb2zQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFU7BAST-oNGpy4JvODDsf=8eS69hV8XCi8OgEHBkkoujRN3Rw@mail.gmail.com> <699f556a3eac41179a80d2cc8749a191@huawei.com> <CAO42Z2wiebCOPmtcEOJ3rOaZEpHE7qFZZTf5KLWybSsL6rOd9Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau1FV-uEkX1S7vOEVxggjcNvUVTmokPAEOiapxPTySN-vw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1mk8Qv1anXohCJaiH0WWn-BkS4mr=ffyF0cCaE7CM314w@mail.gmail.com> <CAE=N4xf_wRPQeChkfXWxj7+Do8jp2U6hDtjH+-RUNis+ynMRbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAM5+tA__Gegt5fR1UFwshm7DKDVMDpFsJK2jMG6Z6Yo79Noc3A@mail.gmail.com> <59b90d7184194a84a0c53b616796dec0@huawei.com> <BN8PR07MB70767C3EC7B68EF1D2286CFE95FC9@BN8PR07MB7076.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAN-Dau3iyP7sMUsiP3ckYEpkLoQK-bpgKnDn6d4Ci7f9V_5CPw@mail.gmail.com> <14c97051cbeb4e20b4b1103c894cd602@huawei.com> <CAN-Dau2s+MxdC1xc9xM=Gs2x5Ak9nh0uv-m5_nYGPHymZMUJsw@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2yJjcQp4C4FXy-vfs+O0Bxaa+pBg0rOpiAmN1xF-TGK5Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau3a9zxT1W=2d=8MDT7nz90=WhG7Ff2xOjfm8=Z8YYsPBw@mail.gmail.com> <d785429 a-59f5-42db-3c33-39861b985910@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 27.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 21:02:55 -0400
Message-ID: <8497.1651539775@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/YtcCu8Rqng1DJhGr6652461m6hg>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] Vicious circle [ULA precedence [Thoughts about wider operational input]]
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 01:03:05 -0000

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
    > That is, I think, irrelevant. All we are really talking about is the order in which results are returned by getaddrinfo(), which is what RFC6724 determines. At present, you will get this back from getaddrinfo() for a locally defined DNS entry (in Pythonic format):

    > (<AddressFamily.AF_INET: 2>, 0, 0, '', ('10.1.0.10', 0))
    > (<AddressFamily.AF_INET6: 23>, 0, 0, '', ('fdee:face:fade::a', 0, 0, 0))

What if the values returned are:
   192.0.0.1
   fdee:face:fade::a

That is, a public IPv4, and a ULA?

An enterprise that would prefer to keep certain traffic inside the firewall
(the ULA), but which also wants to provide external access for those working
remote might do this.  But said Enterprise does not have external IPv6,
does not want to depend upon it, or has VPN systems that do not universally
do IPv6 yet. (192.0.0.1 might be on-prem, but available via VPN)

As a different example:
   10.1.0.10
   2001:db8::10

in this case, anyone with IPv4 only should connect internally and/or via the
IPv4-only VPN.   But, the system/service is also available to those with IPv6
connectivity even if their VPN is off.
(There could be further ACLs on access which restricts which IPv6 sources
connect)
Should there also be a ULA for this service for devices that are internal,
and have internal IPv6 connectivity, and/or have IPv6 capable VPNs?

Note that putting RFC1918 in public DNS is frowned upon, and some home
routers (openwrt/dnsmasq) will filter them out as "rebind" attacks.
(It's a dumb name, but it's a real attack)

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide