Re: [v6ops] ULA precedence [Thoughts about wider operational input]

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Fri, 06 May 2022 03:23 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC64FC15E6D4; Thu, 5 May 2022 20:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.078
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nMI6raEdNNe7; Thu, 5 May 2022 20:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC2A9C15E6C6; Thu, 5 May 2022 20:23:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6987B38AD6; Thu, 5 May 2022 23:36:40 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id XOAJHHOkWwYb; Thu, 5 May 2022 23:36:36 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A83F38AD5; Thu, 5 May 2022 23:36:36 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1651808196; bh=WtT4LQ+v9BZxVuEOTgELSR0/L4eLnYcN8zwQ4gHwOy0=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=sFIjPjbXTng70tfumwC5b17prBqnv0k1Mu8VuvIkF9wjq+aIXbh3TW+av1Wqd9o0M 39AWUglb6LSo6/y6piulhhcvApbw5hTsP5hYvOjrwQ8yAoXvoIwQ8lCVCzLBKgX/8+ WURBtNqtovXx6JWrGgezN0IAELUGHjHVMIogSsBJOcEKjmiI0X8OTrYRbT+hVkBPhc LS0kPEULB6ZN8Tl+XXCRL94Px+b+hiApYnMfmRYzQ2EjJ+bLv7uAVvefTMH5VHEpDn 4EUVXgf6fvvGeZpUJ5hXmPeBjzwi2L0ZKhONWgC6AhLvTku318jMLovdA0kyyVBBAq /6jPzd7uHcLKg==
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4943E2C1; Thu, 5 May 2022 23:23:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>, 6man list <ipv6@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAE=N4xdwvMPbUwOk6N=5quU+Bhc84u8F2Ep+bNOqE+A9_hAGcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM5+tA8WvjvWirxqE6kQ9LQAG0NcpWyCLGVooB=G7gZ9ETb2zQ@mail.gmail.com> <20220424172743.GA218999@fg-networking.de> <CAKD1Yr1v0Tkh+pWD-ts=PL3gZf7Qj6OHW6Cuvj8iGcSSMibjew@mail.gmail.com> <20220425100310.GF67548@fg-networking.de> <CAPt1N1=XedJ7tY9pKDS3LvDMak6iPsK9fA=oF7Z0KkmGcA6-_A@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2ydhe3hVOqSaN814hYh3oF3yG_du+gRkg6yD5haCqDnLQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1=YdnZ_N+47v4A_EM70TobSt1sw5tcmBfQJEP5Y1zCwMg@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2xyx2MpCCYQoXA9izRM7Xk42+Z-1OnL2PuzgsGfw1SFiw@mail.gmail.com> <20220428075001.GA86458@fg-networking.de> <3499CB52-0873-4DF5-A923-62BF91AA6FAB@gmail.com> <CAE=N4xcci50tOhtdxYVevcEFh4y8_CyF8qd0dRsXvpAKoX4yZQ@mail.gmail.com> <48435B34-A6F0-45B6-AA28-CB1E9E61EA6D@gmail.com> <CAE=N4xdwvMPbUwOk6N=5quU+Bhc84u8F2Ep+bNOqE+A9_hAGcg@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 27.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 23:23:22 -0400
Message-ID: <15039.1651807402@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/axceaaqnHyc26qOkklVNe4Bb_0M>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] ULA precedence [Thoughts about wider operational input]
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 03:23:33 -0000

    fred> You might look at section 3 of RFC 4193, and specifically at the global ID
    fred> mentioned in section 3.2. I'm looking at the first 48 bits of the address
    fred> and calling it a routing prefix. Let me put the question back to you:
    fred> starting from RFC 4193, what other prefix would be under consideration, and
    fred> why would it be under consideration?

Ed Horley <ed@hexabuild.io> wrote:
    > Yes, I am familiar with section 3.2 - my question is because several on
    > this mailing list in the past have said to ignore the stated pseudo-random
    > requirement in that section and not to follow this section which states
    > "Specifically, these prefixes are not designed to aggregate." Obviously, if
    > you don't follow that then the question comes back to are we still assuming
    > a /48? Or do we mean something different when we say "same prefix"? Is that
    > defaulting to just the overall ULA prefix itself because people are
    > designing networks starting at fd01::/32, fd02::/32, fd03::/32...
    > fdff::/32, etc. which I completely understand is not how 4193 says to do
    > it, but it is happening, so we need to be thinking about it perhaps? Just
    > curious if anyone else is seeing this behavior with their customers at
    > all?

I'm understanding the question to be:

For instance, if two enterprises with internal ULA-R's merged, then they
might prefer that ULA1 was used as a source address even when speaking to
ULA2, rather than a GUA.

(Should they renumber into a single ULA?  Probably, but this is a place where
IPv6 and ULAs are supposed to be a win)

If I have fd01:abcd:1234:4567::A/64 as an address, one can see how a system
could be automatically configured to prefer that address when talking to
destinations like fd01:abcd:1234::/48 ("ULA1")

I don't know how it would know to use fd01:abcd:1234:4567::A/64 when talking
to fd02:fedc:8765::/48 ("ULA2").  Really, this comes back to the general
source address selection problem with multi-homing, which homenet tried to solve.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide