Re: [v6ops] Thoughts about wider operational input

["Ackermann, Michael" <[e-mail]>]

Thank you Paolo
Good comments IMHO.  
This thread has gotten into topics  other than what I thought Fred was asking about, so I stopped responding.  
I agree with what you say and your ideas for moving this forward.     I think this could be important and  I would attempt to help in any way the WG or others  would like.   The warning I would provide is that it is VERY difficult to get enterprises to participate in initiatives such as this.   

Only one question I have is in regards to your statement about Enterprises are represented at IETF,  directly or indirectly.       My impression is that directly,  not much at all.   And if indirectly, means vendors,  I do not see that as an effective mechanism for articulating enterprise requirements,(challenges, use cases, preferences, etc).      
 But having made both of those statements I believe that this is largely our own fault for not participating.     We all have our reasons/excuses (lack of understanding, money, time, etc.),  but I believe all could be addressable, if IETF is serious.   I hope they are!

Thanks again

Mike


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paolo Volpato <paolo.volpato=[e-mail]> 
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 5:33 AM
To: Ackermann, Michael <[e-mail]>; Fred Baker <[e-mail]>; IPv6 Ops WG <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [v6ops] Thoughts about wider operational input

[External email]


I go back to the initial question posed by Fred and discussed by Michael here below (and echoed by others in the thread).

Personally, I agree with what Michael says and this is also one of the conclusions I would draw from the analysis done in draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment. Enterprises, whatever we mean by that term and with the due exceptions, don't care about IPv6, unless it supports/enables their business goals.

But I believe that enterprises are represented in the IETF, either directly or indirectly.
As discussed at the v6ops session on Monday, if the proposal is to listen to the people who have challenges or are even opposing to IPv6 then we can think of finding room for listening/interacting with enterprises on that. Without discussing here how and where, Fred's idea to have a meeting at the next RIPE could be a first step (and if accepted I would be happy to give support).

I am pretty sure that the contributions we may collect as a WG could be the subject of an operational draft.

BR
Paolo


-----Original Message-----
From: v6ops <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Ackermann, Michael
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 2:13 PM
To: Fred Baker <[e-mail]>; IPv6 Ops WG <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] Thoughts about wider operational input

Good question Fred.
As one of those enterprises "Dragging their heels" on IPv6, and knowing MANY others in the same state,   I believe the following are the core issues:
1. Lack of technical knowledge regarding IPv6 implementation and operation.
2. Lack of understanding of compelling reason(s) to deploy IPv6.   Both Technical and Business reasons.

There is progress in both areas,  but definitely  not enough and results are slow (or worse).

Another area that COULD be compelling is to highlight what issues may be faced if an Org stays on IPv4 only, for either the short or long term

Any help, guidance or info regarding either of the above would be helpful and appreciated.

The best methods for doing this is a probably a longer discussion(s), so I will not attempt to address related details in this email.
But I do believe this is any topic which warrants attention and would glad to contribute,  if I can.

Thanks

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: v6ops <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Fred Baker
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:33 PM
To: IPv6 Ops WG <[e-mail]>
Subject: [v6ops] Thoughts about wider operational input

[External email]


I have thought some about the discussion we had in the V6ops meeting about increasing operational input. Several suggestions were made: add a separate meeting, segregate parts of the meeting, attend the IEPG, use an interim, and so on. One thought that I had was to schedule a meeting at RIPE in May.

None of these address what seems to me to be a core problem: ISPs are deploying, but enterprise isn’t. How do we get enterprise on board?

Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...
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