Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Mon, 16 March 2020 05:04 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12F03A0C3C for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 15 Mar 2020 22:04:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.089
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MlW2g1EzMHR6 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 15 Mar 2020 22:04:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A18523A0C31 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Mar 2020 22:04:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9B821B3F; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 05:04:03 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-217-49.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.217.49]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3A17C2196B; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 05:04:03 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Mon, 16 Mar 2020 05:04:03 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost
X-Trouble-Suffer: 6cda72034bd5507f_1584335043505_3460186188
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1584335043505:85571060
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1584335043504
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F5A9BC1A; Sun, 15 Mar 2020 22:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=W5Qm0NnQlVN3Iv BuxEsHUotEgYk=; b=HWpfzrXhnSpl6jfp3J57tssWfrDCSBnnvMr1cKPXYkBRpO T3z4gPJVVkdW4LrAXyzUBEoEfKzX+GwNUcoJW68slgq3db69n/YN3GdpCphK2Pnt pkOd2ORBHI1zZJB3xt5Tu2yU7JXW/pfApCgQa3t5yIPooFYltlmzgVVJG++9E=
Received: from localhost (unknown [24.28.108.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 065019BBFC; Sun, 15 Mar 2020 22:03:58 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 00:03:56 -0500
X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a54
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
Message-ID: <20200316050354.GG18021@localhost>
References: <ced52e6d-7cee-f529-a5dc-187329b42da1@comcast.net> <5C06DE55-2522-473F-9F85-5A929196DD04@consulintel.es> <20200310203449.GA12384@gsp.org> <3CAF3B2E-A958-4E41-901F-C391513B65BF@consulintel.es> <fa392022-6817-ed4c-2d11-ee88af4d6684@gmail.com> <F8829B0A-6A02-44FC-B0C5-D586F40332F5@consulintel.es> <CABmDk8k+UP=wEjH=CjgmTUhdb2WEqNyPWSSbQdR5O1TwP9QTGA@mail.gmail.com> <20200315100507.GB18814@gsp.org> <CE29CC60-CD4E-4A1B-98D6-3D71815EDE3A@consulintel.es> <20200315144124.GP225435@mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20200315144124.GP225435@mit.edu>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28)
X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK
X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0
X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudefuddgudegkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjfgesthdtredttdervdenucfhrhhomheppfhitghoucghihhllhhirghmshcuoehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmqeenucfkphepvdegrddvkedruddtkedrudekfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehlohgtrghlhhhoshhtpdhinhgvthepvdegrddvkedruddtkedrudekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppfhitghoucghihhllhhirghmshcuoehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhm
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/Cb4XY6pzxd-7O6Y6NjDXt3sOGDc>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 05:04:11 -0000

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:41:24AM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 01:24:58PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> > 2) The S. Korean model, which is testing lots of people and
> > quarantine only for those that don't pass the test.
> 
> In the S. Korean model, quaranteen officers have significant powers to
> make sure individuals who have tested positive to stay sequesters.
> They also have the power to use individuals' cell phone location
> history to track people's past locations via GPS to find other people
> who may have interacted with the infected individual, and who should
> therefore, be tested, and possibly, quaranteened.
> 
> I doubt this would work in even in the United States, where the
> population at large seem to be much more accepting of government
> surveillance in the name of National Security.  However, in Europe,
> and especially countries like Germany, who have a much greater fear of
> government surveillance (perhaps because of the experience of the
> Stasi in East Germany), I very much doubt the full South Korean model
> would fly at all.

In the U.S. the local governments used to have a great deal of lattitude
constitutionally and statutorilly.  Compulsory vaccination and
quarantines used to be a thing Stateside.  Now maybe not so much, and
though most Americans accept subtle surveillance, we don't like overt
surveillance.  We still don't have anything like a national ID document
as in pretty much the rest of the world.  But when the brown stuff hits
the moving blades, you never know what a population might accept.  With
any luck we won't find out anytime soon!

Nico
--