Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled

Mary B <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> Wed, 11 March 2020 15:07 UTC

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From: Mary B <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 10:07:12 -0500
Message-ID: <CABmDk8k+UP=wEjH=CjgmTUhdb2WEqNyPWSSbQdR5O1TwP9QTGA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "<ietf@ietf.org>" <ietf@ietf.org>
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Just one comment on your item #1 in your proposal.   Your body does not
immediately develop the antibodies upon exposure, so you can be a carrier
well before you'll test positive. You'd also selfishly be adding to the
burden on the system for testing.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:26 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=
40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> The only way to know the real situation in Italy is to get a confirmation
> from someone there, if we don't trust the news.
>
> I just watched TV news while having lunch and they confirmed the same I
> told before. You can move if you sign a certificate "on the spot" that your
> movement is for something needed and not "for fun" or for "relocate to
> other region in the country while this happens".
>
> Some countries, including Spain, cancelled all *direct* flights to Italy,
> but airports in Italy still work, so you could make an *indirect* flight.
>
> I've been asked to fill a form as part of the immigration process the last
> couple of weeks while traveling for work to a north African country. I
> think that's fair and reasonable.
>
> My motto is very simple, I need to fulfill my professional commitments,
> and I always do that even up-front my own personal things/needs.
>
> My customers will not care if my country decide to put me in quarantine in
> an indiscriminate way. If I don't fulfill my commitment, I will lose the
> contracts, the customers, will not be paid for what I'd already done, and
> probably, will need to pay some compensation, that easily can bring me to
> bankruptcy.
>
> I don't care if the government "promises" to compensate for this, is not
> right you never get all that compensated, and further, it is paid by all
> us. If some people from the government or any specific institution take
> such indiscriminate decision, they must cover the cost, not all the
> citizens.
>
> If I've a health problem, which still allows me to exercise my freedom to
> decide to keep working IF and only IF I'm not creating troubles to others,
> is my freedom and it is my personal decision despite any consequences that
> only affect myself. And I've been already in that situation a couple of
> times and I survived. If I don't survive, but luck, (I will not know it
> anymore), and meanwhile I did what it was my obligation to do and I was
> happy.
>
> I don't think the Italian government can take an action such as blocking
> indiscriminately the movements of all the citizens and residents. I think
> democratic countries, in general, have a Constitution that protects
> citizens against indiscriminate restrictions of freedom of movement.
>
> In the case of Spain, I believe that it will be unconstitutional (unless
> martial law is declared), and if this happens, I will fight against that.
> I've already fought in courts several times against Spanish government or
> public institutions, even in the Constitutional court, with some degree of
> success, some cases still open, some laws changed with my personal fight
> and unfortunately also some cases lost (but you also learnt from that).
>
> I'm not the kind of person that "bla bla bla" and then don't act. If there
> is a problem, whatever is it, take actions. We say in Spain (literal
> translation) "barking dog, little biter".
>
> So, in this situation if the Spanish government take such decision of
> restricting my freedom in an indiscriminate way, this is my plan (which
> I've sent to my lawyer this morning to make sure that it is right, but I
> think so):
>
> 1) Get tested for Covid19 (even repeat it every week or after every trip
> if needed)
> 2) Voluntarily avoid moving for "fun"
> 3) Keep my normal professional activities, including attending customers,
> traveling or whatever is committed of course IF my test was "free of
> Covid19"
> 4) If I'm free of Covid19, I will clearly disobey the government-imposed
> restriction of movement in order to fulfil my commitments
> 5) If I'm arrested, which is a possibility, ask for an "habeas corpus", to
> be presented immediately to a judge, show him my "Covid19 test", to make
> sure that I'm released.
> 6) Immediately sue the government for an illegal restriction of movement
> and arrest.
>
> No matter how much is the cost or consequences, fight against irrational
> and indiscriminate freedom restrictions. Again: IF and only IF, you're free
> from the Covid19, so never being able to affect others.
>
> I encourage everyone to do the same, to make sure that their rights aren't
> restricted. Nobody can restrict freedom in democratic countries in an
> indiscriminate way. Otherwise, what is the next reason governments will do
> it again?
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
> El 11/3/20 11:27, "ietf en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu" <
> ietf-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>
>
>     Le 10/03/2020 à 22:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit :
>     > The information that I've understood from the TV news and online
>     > newspapers is that Italy is not "closed".
>     >
>     > If you sign a document showing that you're moving around for work,
>     > they you are allowed to move. For fun not.
>     >
>     > Don't take my above sentence literally. Is my personal summary of how
>     > they "close" the country. In fact it has been said that restricting
>     > movement of people is against constitution unless the martial law is
>     > declared, because the government could only impose that if doing an
>     > analysis you have the virus, which for me, makes a lot of sense
>     > then.
>
>     Jordi, I think since you posted that particular situation of Italy
>     closure might have changed for the worst.
>
>     I can tell that France said initially that all routes waterways and
>     airways open to Italy.  It then changed to some of them being closed
>     (notably the airways).
>
>     I can tell that in Romania it is said all ways closed to Italy.
>
>     I can tell that other countries made similar statements in recent
> days,
>     towards closure.
>
>     I can also tell I understand the reasoning behind you mention when you
>     say allowing only business travellers (no tourist).  It might be the
>     case.  But in the end, I do not see why business travellers would be a
>     different kind of humans, medically speaking.
>
>     Alex
>
>     >
>     > Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > El 10/3/20 21:36, "ietf en nombre de Rich Kulawiec"
>     > <ietf-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de rsk@gsp.org> escribió:
>     >
>     > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 08:29:56PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
>     > wrote:
>     >> I really think it is a criminal wrong decision. We are just helping
>     >> to spread the fear.
>     >
>     > No, it's a realistic decision.  A vaccine is likely a year-ish away
>     > barring a serendipitous breakthrough.  Italy shut down the entire
>     > country effective this morning.  US Universities and colleges are
>     > sending their students home.  And so on -- because the only viable
>     > method available for slowing the spread is social distancing.
>     > COVID-19 will still propagate, but it will propagate more slowly,
>     > flattening the demand curve for medical resources, including
>     > personnel, hospital rooms, ICU space, etc. (And those of us in the US
>     > had better hope that works because the current infection rate
>     > projections look ominous circa March 20 and the testing rate is
>     > orders of magnitude below where it needs to be.)
>     >
>     > Everything done before a pandemic looks like too much, everything
>     > done after it hits looks like too little.
>     >
>     > ---rsk
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
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