Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
Mary B <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> Wed, 11 March 2020 15:07 UTC
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From: Mary B <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 10:07:12 -0500
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Subject: Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "<ietf@ietf.org>" <ietf@ietf.org>
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Just one comment on your item #1 in your proposal. Your body does not immediately develop the antibodies upon exposure, so you can be a carrier well before you'll test positive. You'd also selfishly be adding to the burden on the system for testing. On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:26 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet= 40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > The only way to know the real situation in Italy is to get a confirmation > from someone there, if we don't trust the news. > > I just watched TV news while having lunch and they confirmed the same I > told before. You can move if you sign a certificate "on the spot" that your > movement is for something needed and not "for fun" or for "relocate to > other region in the country while this happens". > > Some countries, including Spain, cancelled all *direct* flights to Italy, > but airports in Italy still work, so you could make an *indirect* flight. > > I've been asked to fill a form as part of the immigration process the last > couple of weeks while traveling for work to a north African country. I > think that's fair and reasonable. > > My motto is very simple, I need to fulfill my professional commitments, > and I always do that even up-front my own personal things/needs. > > My customers will not care if my country decide to put me in quarantine in > an indiscriminate way. If I don't fulfill my commitment, I will lose the > contracts, the customers, will not be paid for what I'd already done, and > probably, will need to pay some compensation, that easily can bring me to > bankruptcy. > > I don't care if the government "promises" to compensate for this, is not > right you never get all that compensated, and further, it is paid by all > us. If some people from the government or any specific institution take > such indiscriminate decision, they must cover the cost, not all the > citizens. > > If I've a health problem, which still allows me to exercise my freedom to > decide to keep working IF and only IF I'm not creating troubles to others, > is my freedom and it is my personal decision despite any consequences that > only affect myself. And I've been already in that situation a couple of > times and I survived. If I don't survive, but luck, (I will not know it > anymore), and meanwhile I did what it was my obligation to do and I was > happy. > > I don't think the Italian government can take an action such as blocking > indiscriminately the movements of all the citizens and residents. I think > democratic countries, in general, have a Constitution that protects > citizens against indiscriminate restrictions of freedom of movement. > > In the case of Spain, I believe that it will be unconstitutional (unless > martial law is declared), and if this happens, I will fight against that. > I've already fought in courts several times against Spanish government or > public institutions, even in the Constitutional court, with some degree of > success, some cases still open, some laws changed with my personal fight > and unfortunately also some cases lost (but you also learnt from that). > > I'm not the kind of person that "bla bla bla" and then don't act. If there > is a problem, whatever is it, take actions. We say in Spain (literal > translation) "barking dog, little biter". > > So, in this situation if the Spanish government take such decision of > restricting my freedom in an indiscriminate way, this is my plan (which > I've sent to my lawyer this morning to make sure that it is right, but I > think so): > > 1) Get tested for Covid19 (even repeat it every week or after every trip > if needed) > 2) Voluntarily avoid moving for "fun" > 3) Keep my normal professional activities, including attending customers, > traveling or whatever is committed of course IF my test was "free of > Covid19" > 4) If I'm free of Covid19, I will clearly disobey the government-imposed > restriction of movement in order to fulfil my commitments > 5) If I'm arrested, which is a possibility, ask for an "habeas corpus", to > be presented immediately to a judge, show him my "Covid19 test", to make > sure that I'm released. > 6) Immediately sue the government for an illegal restriction of movement > and arrest. > > No matter how much is the cost or consequences, fight against irrational > and indiscriminate freedom restrictions. Again: IF and only IF, you're free > from the Covid19, so never being able to affect others. > > I encourage everyone to do the same, to make sure that their rights aren't > restricted. Nobody can restrict freedom in democratic countries in an > indiscriminate way. Otherwise, what is the next reason governments will do > it again? > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > El 11/3/20 11:27, "ietf en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu" < > ietf-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> escribió: > > > > Le 10/03/2020 à 22:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit : > > The information that I've understood from the TV news and online > > newspapers is that Italy is not "closed". > > > > If you sign a document showing that you're moving around for work, > > they you are allowed to move. For fun not. > > > > Don't take my above sentence literally. Is my personal summary of how > > they "close" the country. In fact it has been said that restricting > > movement of people is against constitution unless the martial law is > > declared, because the government could only impose that if doing an > > analysis you have the virus, which for me, makes a lot of sense > > then. > > Jordi, I think since you posted that particular situation of Italy > closure might have changed for the worst. > > I can tell that France said initially that all routes waterways and > airways open to Italy. It then changed to some of them being closed > (notably the airways). > > I can tell that in Romania it is said all ways closed to Italy. > > I can tell that other countries made similar statements in recent > days, > towards closure. > > I can also tell I understand the reasoning behind you mention when you > say allowing only business travellers (no tourist). It might be the > case. But in the end, I do not see why business travellers would be a > different kind of humans, medically speaking. > > Alex > > > > > Regards, Jordi @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 10/3/20 21:36, "ietf en nombre de Rich Kulawiec" > > <ietf-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de rsk@gsp.org> escribió: > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 08:29:56PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > > wrote: > >> I really think it is a criminal wrong decision. We are just helping > >> to spread the fear. > > > > No, it's a realistic decision. A vaccine is likely a year-ish away > > barring a serendipitous breakthrough. Italy shut down the entire > > country effective this morning. US Universities and colleges are > > sending their students home. And so on -- because the only viable > > method available for slowing the spread is social distancing. > > COVID-19 will still propagate, but it will propagate more slowly, > > flattening the demand curve for medical resources, including > > personnel, hospital rooms, ICU space, etc. (And those of us in the US > > had better hope that works because the current infection rate > > projections look ominous circa March 20 and the testing rate is > > orders of magnitude below where it needs to be.) > > > > Everything done before a pandemic looks like too much, everything > > done after it hits looks like too little. > > > > ---rsk > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you > > ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 > > Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive > > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty > > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents > > of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is > > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you > > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if > > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be > > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original > > sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > >
- IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled The IESG
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Kyle Rose
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Eric Rescorla
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stephen Farrell
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled otroan
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stewart Bryant
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Cullen Jennings
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Vittorio Bertola
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Keith Moore
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Job Snijders
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Lou Berger
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Paul Wouters
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fred Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Melchior Aelmans
- AW: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled N.Leymann
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Christian Hopps
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Soininen, Jonne (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Randy Bush
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Bob Hinden
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John C Klensin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Livingood, Jason
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John Levine
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John Levine
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled George Michaelson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Terry Manderson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John C Klensin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Benoit Claise
- In person versus virtual? Eliot Lear
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Chown
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled tom petch
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nick Hilliard
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Chown
- Re: In person versus virtual? Tim Chown
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Christian
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Vittorio Bertola
- Re: In person versus virtual? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Leif Johansson
- Re: In person versus virtual? Christian Hopps
- Re: In person versus virtual? Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Air Canada, was Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person … Paul Wouters
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joel M. Halpern
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: Madrid Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nick Hilliard
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stan Kalisch
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled S Moonesamy
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Carsten Bormann
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael Breuer
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: Air Canada, was Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Per… Roni Even (A)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled S Moonesamy
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
- IETF 108 (i.e. "models to combat the ... the viru… Joseph Potvin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Ross Finlayson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Bray
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Keith Moore
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nico Williams