RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
"BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com> Wed, 11 March 2020 16:11 UTC
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
Thread-Topic: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
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Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 16:11:14 +0000
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Much thanks Daniele for letting us know what is happening. It means much more than what has been filtered for public release. +1 - let's not waste time pointing fingers at who is to blame or say it can never happen to us - Take care- Deborah -----Original Message----- From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Daniele Ceccarelli Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 11:56 AM To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>; ietf@ietf.org Subject: RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled I live in the North of Italy, hospitals are close to the collapse. Mortality is fairly low provided that all the infected people have access to intensive care...but we're running out of beds in intensive care. Entire hospitals have been confiscated by the governors of the regions and totally dedicated to Covid patients. (this is one of the very few cases in which I'm proud of how Italy is reacting to a problem). Doctors are in a condition in which they start to decide who can have access to intensive care and need to put a bar. (which according to rumors is going down to 60 years...if you're older and/or suffer from other diseases...good luck !). Mortality is close to double digits. Yes, you can sign a certificate to declare that you need to move for 3 reasons: important working reasons, particular needs (buying goods or going to the pharmacy), health needs. A conference is NOT an important working reason, it's not a matter of life or death...in fact conferences are prohibited on the entire Italian soil, as well as any type of sport, public events, ceremonies (including wedding and funerals), big malls, museums, cinemas, libraries and schools are closed. Italy is the country that is executing the highest number of tests and it's not possible to test everyone. I have friends which are doctors and would like to be tested before going back to the trench, but it's impossible to test all of them...worthless to say that it's impossible and meaningless to test a bunch of engineers that can't meet virtually in 2020. In Italy it's happening that same thing that happened in China with 2-3 weeks of delay. The rest of Europe has 2-3 weeks of advantage to learn the lesson and not under evaluate the risks...don't waste them! We all should be thankful to China for implementing so aggressive counter measures to slow down the virus (which is working) and not complain about a small limitation of own rights...this is saving tens of thousands of lives. Daniele -----Original Message----- From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Sent: den 11 mars 2020 15:25 To: ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled The only way to know the real situation in Italy is to get a confirmation from someone there, if we don't trust the news. I just watched TV news while having lunch and they confirmed the same I told before. You can move if you sign a certificate "on the spot" that your movement is for something needed and not "for fun" or for "relocate to other region in the country while this happens". Some countries, including Spain, cancelled all *direct* flights to Italy, but airports in Italy still work, so you could make an *indirect* flight. I've been asked to fill a form as part of the immigration process the last couple of weeks while traveling for work to a north African country. I think that's fair and reasonable. My motto is very simple, I need to fulfill my professional commitments, and I always do that even up-front my own personal things/needs. My customers will not care if my country decide to put me in quarantine in an indiscriminate way. If I don't fulfill my commitment, I will lose the contracts, the customers, will not be paid for what I'd already done, and probably, will need to pay some compensation, that easily can bring me to bankruptcy. I don't care if the government "promises" to compensate for this, is not right you never get all that compensated, and further, it is paid by all us. If some people from the government or any specific institution take such indiscriminate decision, they must cover the cost, not all the citizens. If I've a health problem, which still allows me to exercise my freedom to decide to keep working IF and only IF I'm not creating troubles to others, is my freedom and it is my personal decision despite any consequences that only affect myself. And I've been already in that situation a couple of times and I survived. If I don't survive, but luck, (I will not know it anymore), and meanwhile I did what it was my obligation to do and I was happy. I don't think the Italian government can take an action such as blocking indiscriminately the movements of all the citizens and residents. I think democratic countries, in general, have a Constitution that protects citizens against indiscriminate restrictions of freedom of movement. In the case of Spain, I believe that it will be unconstitutional (unless martial law is declared), and if this happens, I will fight against that. I've already fought in courts several times against Spanish government or public institutions, even in the Constitutional court, with some degree of success, some cases still open, some laws changed with my personal fight and unfortunately also some cases lost (but you also learnt from that). I'm not the kind of person that "bla bla bla" and then don't act. If there is a problem, whatever is it, take actions. We say in Spain (literal translation) "barking dog, little biter". So, in this situation if the Spanish government take such decision of restricting my freedom in an indiscriminate way, this is my plan (which I've sent to my lawyer this morning to make sure that it is right, but I think so): 1) Get tested for Covid19 (even repeat it every week or after every trip if needed) 2) Voluntarily avoid moving for "fun" 3) Keep my normal professional activities, including attending customers, traveling or whatever is committed of course IF my test was "free of Covid19" 4) If I'm free of Covid19, I will clearly disobey the government-imposed restriction of movement in order to fulfil my commitments 5) If I'm arrested, which is a possibility, ask for an "habeas corpus", to be presented immediately to a judge, show him my "Covid19 test", to make sure that I'm released. 6) Immediately sue the government for an illegal restriction of movement and arrest. No matter how much is the cost or consequences, fight against irrational and indiscriminate freedom restrictions. Again: IF and only IF, you're free from the Covid19, so never being able to affect others. I encourage everyone to do the same, to make sure that their rights aren't restricted. Nobody can restrict freedom in democratic countries in an indiscriminate way. Otherwise, what is the next reason governments will do it again? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 11/3/20 11:27, "ietf en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu" <ietf-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> escribió: Le 10/03/2020 à 22:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit : > The information that I've understood from the TV news and online > newspapers is that Italy is not "closed". > > If you sign a document showing that you're moving around for work, > they you are allowed to move. For fun not. > > Don't take my above sentence literally. Is my personal summary of how > they "close" the country. In fact it has been said that restricting > movement of people is against constitution unless the martial law is > declared, because the government could only impose that if doing an > analysis you have the virus, which for me, makes a lot of sense > then. Jordi, I think since you posted that particular situation of Italy closure might have changed for the worst. I can tell that France said initially that all routes waterways and airways open to Italy. It then changed to some of them being closed (notably the airways). I can tell that in Romania it is said all ways closed to Italy. I can tell that other countries made similar statements in recent days, towards closure. I can also tell I understand the reasoning behind you mention when you say allowing only business travellers (no tourist). It might be the case. But in the end, I do not see why business travellers would be a different kind of humans, medically speaking. Alex > > Regards, Jordi @jordipalet > > > > El 10/3/20 21:36, "ietf en nombre de Rich Kulawiec" > <ietf-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de rsk@gsp.org> escribió: > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 08:29:56PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > wrote: >> I really think it is a criminal wrong decision. We are just helping >> to spread the fear. > > No, it's a realistic decision. A vaccine is likely a year-ish away > barring a serendipitous breakthrough. Italy shut down the entire > country effective this morning. US Universities and colleges are > sending their students home. And so on -- because the only viable > method available for slowing the spread is social distancing. > COVID-19 will still propagate, but it will propagate more slowly, > flattening the demand curve for medical resources, including > personnel, hospital rooms, ICU space, etc. (And those of us in the US > had better hope that works because the current infection rate > projections look ominous circa March 20 and the testing rate is > orders of magnitude below where it needs to be.) > > Everything done before a pandemic looks like too much, everything > done after it hits looks like too little. > > ---rsk > > > > > > ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you > ready for the new Internet ? https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=ea0d1eec-b684c4ab-ea0d5e77-0cc47ad93e96-d3139ba94b7dea43&q=1&e=4589129b-d9fd-41f0-9922-53bcc3d08312&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theipv6company.com%2F The IPv6 > Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents > of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. 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- IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled The IESG
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Kyle Rose
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Eric Rescorla
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stephen Farrell
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled otroan
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stewart Bryant
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Cullen Jennings
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Vittorio Bertola
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Keith Moore
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Job Snijders
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Lou Berger
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Paul Wouters
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fred Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Melchior Aelmans
- AW: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled N.Leymann
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Christian Hopps
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Soininen, Jonne (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Randy Bush
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Bob Hinden
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John C Klensin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Livingood, Jason
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John Levine
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John Levine
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled George Michaelson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Terry Manderson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John C Klensin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Benoit Claise
- In person versus virtual? Eliot Lear
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Chown
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled tom petch
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nick Hilliard
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Chown
- Re: In person versus virtual? Tim Chown
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Christian
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Vittorio Bertola
- Re: In person versus virtual? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Leif Johansson
- Re: In person versus virtual? Christian Hopps
- Re: In person versus virtual? Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Air Canada, was Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person … Paul Wouters
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joel M. Halpern
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: Madrid Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nick Hilliard
- RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stan Kalisch
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled S Moonesamy
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Carsten Bormann
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael Breuer
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: Air Canada, was Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Per… Roni Even (A)
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled S Moonesamy
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
- IETF 108 (i.e. "models to combat the ... the viru… Joseph Potvin
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Ross Finlayson
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Bray
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Keith Moore
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nico Williams