Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled

[Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]>]

Le 11/03/2020 à 15:25, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit :
> The only way to know the real situation in Italy is to get a
> confirmation from someone there, if we don't trust the news.

Let us ask someone from Italy: what should I tell the Carabinieri if I 
want to get past?

Alex

> 
> I just watched TV news while having lunch and they confirmed the same
> I told before. You can move if you sign a certificate "on the spot"
> that your movement is for something needed and not "for fun" or for
> "relocate to other region in the country while this happens".
> 
> Some countries, including Spain, cancelled all *direct* flights to
> Italy, but airports in Italy still work, so you could make an
> *indirect* flight.
> 
> I've been asked to fill a form as part of the immigration process the
> last couple of weeks while traveling for work to a north African
> country. I think that's fair and reasonable.
> 
> My motto is very simple, I need to fulfill my professional
> commitments, and I always do that even up-front my own personal
> things/needs.
> 
> My customers will not care if my country decide to put me in
> quarantine in an indiscriminate way. If I don't fulfill my
> commitment, I will lose the contracts, the customers, will not be
> paid for what I'd already done, and probably, will need to pay some
> compensation, that easily can bring me to bankruptcy.
> 
> I don't care if the government "promises" to compensate for this, is
> not right you never get all that compensated, and further, it is paid
> by all us. If some people from the government or any specific
> institution take such indiscriminate decision, they must cover the
> cost, not all the citizens.
> 
> If I've a health problem, which still allows me to exercise my
> freedom to decide to keep working IF and only IF I'm not creating
> troubles to others, is my freedom and it is my personal decision
> despite any consequences that only affect myself. And I've been
> already in that situation a couple of times and I survived. If I
> don't survive, but luck, (I will not know it anymore), and meanwhile
> I did what it was my obligation to do and I was happy.
> 
> I don't think the Italian government can take an action such as
> blocking indiscriminately the movements of all the citizens and
> residents. I think democratic countries, in general, have a
> Constitution that protects citizens against indiscriminate
> restrictions of freedom of movement.
> 
> In the case of Spain, I believe that it will be unconstitutional
> (unless martial law is declared), and if this happens, I will fight
> against that. I've already fought in courts several times against
> Spanish government or public institutions, even in the Constitutional
> court, with some degree of success, some cases still open, some laws
> changed with my personal fight and unfortunately also some cases lost
> (but you also learnt from that).
> 
> I'm not the kind of person that "bla bla bla" and then don't act. If
> there is a problem, whatever is it, take actions. We say in Spain
> (literal translation) "barking dog, little biter".
> 
> So, in this situation if the Spanish government take such decision of
> restricting my freedom in an indiscriminate way, this is my plan
> (which I've sent to my lawyer this morning to make sure that it is
> right, but I think so):
> 
> 1) Get tested for Covid19 (even repeat it every week or after every
> trip if needed) 2) Voluntarily avoid moving for "fun" 3) Keep my
> normal professional activities, including attending customers,
> traveling or whatever is committed of course IF my test was "free of
> Covid19" 4) If I'm free of Covid19, I will clearly disobey the
> government-imposed restriction of movement in order to fulfil my
> commitments 5) If I'm arrested, which is a possibility, ask for an
> "habeas corpus", to be presented immediately to a judge, show him my
> "Covid19 test", to make sure that I'm released. 6) Immediately sue
> the government for an illegal restriction of movement and arrest.
> 
> No matter how much is the cost or consequences, fight against
> irrational and indiscriminate freedom restrictions. Again: IF and
> only IF, you're free from the Covid19, so never being able to affect
> others.
> 
> I encourage everyone to do the same, to make sure that their rights
> aren't restricted. Nobody can restrict freedom in democratic
> countries in an indiscriminate way. Otherwise, what is the next
> reason governments will do it again?
> 
> Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
> 
> 
> 
> El 11/3/20 11:27, "ietf en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu"
> <[e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]>
> escribió:
> 
> 
> 
> Le 10/03/2020 à 22:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit :
>> The information that I've understood from the TV news and online 
>> newspapers is that Italy is not "closed".
>> 
>> If you sign a document showing that you're moving around for work, 
>> they you are allowed to move. For fun not.
>> 
>> Don't take my above sentence literally. Is my personal summary of
>> how they "close" the country. In fact it has been said that
>> restricting movement of people is against constitution unless the
>> martial law is declared, because the government could only impose
>> that if doing an analysis you have the virus, which for me, makes a
>> lot of sense then.
> 
> Jordi, I think since you posted that particular situation of Italy 
> closure might have changed for the worst.
> 
> I can tell that France said initially that all routes waterways and 
> airways open to Italy.  It then changed to some of them being closed 
> (notably the airways).
> 
> I can tell that in Romania it is said all ways closed to Italy.
> 
> I can tell that other countries made similar statements in recent
> days, towards closure.
> 
> I can also tell I understand the reasoning behind you mention when
> you say allowing only business travellers (no tourist).  It might be
> the case.  But in the end, I do not see why business travellers would
> be a different kind of humans, medically speaking.
> 
> Alex
> 
>> 
>> Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> El 10/3/20 21:36, "ietf en nombre de Rich Kulawiec" 
>> <[e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]> escribió:
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 08:29:56PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ 
>> wrote:
>>> I really think it is a criminal wrong decision. We are just
>>> helping to spread the fear.
>> 
>> No, it's a realistic decision.  A vaccine is likely a year-ish
>> away barring a serendipitous breakthrough.  Italy shut down the
>> entire country effective this morning.  US Universities and
>> colleges are sending their students home.  And so on -- because the
>> only viable method available for slowing the spread is social
>> distancing. COVID-19 will still propagate, but it will propagate
>> more slowly, flattening the demand curve for medical resources,
>> including personnel, hospital rooms, ICU space, etc. (And those of
>> us in the US had better hope that works because the current
>> infection rate projections look ominous circa March 20 and the
>> testing rate is orders of magnitude below where it needs to be.)
>> 
>> Everything done before a pandemic looks like too much, everything 
>> done after it hits looks like too little.
>> 
>> ---rsk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you
> ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6
> Company
> 
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
> of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> 
> 
>