Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled

George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Wed, 11 March 2020 02:12 UTC

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From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:12:18 +1000
Message-ID: <CAKr6gn33y4B4VUjHQTg93ksHPaQa9JdXR-EQ48fD-MrSFTpzgw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled
To: Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org>
Cc: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
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Precedence: list

I am one of the people who communicated with Jay privately, and his
replies to me privately, and here publicly completely align: What he
said to me, is what he has said here.

-George

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 12:07 PM Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Rich
>
> On 11/03/2020, at 8:42 AM, Salz, Rich <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>   The IESG and the IRTF Chair have been assessing the viability of the in-person meeting based on the community’s ability to be productive. Assessment of health concerns has been the job of the LLC, on a separate track.
>
>
> Could the LLC have cancelled the meeting?  How separate were the tracks?  The IESG didn't consider health concerns at all?
>
> To put it in common business terms, I think we're owed a root cause analysis of the full decision-making process by all parties.
>
>
> Let me add to Adam’s helpful note, speaking only for the LLC here.
>
> I certainly intend to have an internal debrief to identify any outstanding issues and lessons for next time and then share details of that and get comment.  This is important as a number of decisions were made on the fly and we need to circle back to have those validated/challenged.  For example, our decision to follow public health advice was made in the absence of a community decision and was maintained despite a few community members expressing very strong disagreement (largely in private).
>
> I don’t however see any benefit in producing the kind of detailed timeline of actions and decisions that is normally part of a root cause analysis.  This is not a crash investigation so we don’t need to get forensic.
>
> Yes the LLC track was entirely separate and focused primarily on the health risk.  I would welcome a discussion about the reasoning and decision making around this as part of the process outlined above.
>
> Finally, perhaps the most important thing to note about the decision making is that the IESG followed an evidence-based process, focused on their area of control and made a rational decision based on the data they collected.  That’s not easy in these circumstances.
>
> Jay
>
> --
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> jay@ietf.org
> +64 21 678840
>

IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled The IESG
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Kyle Rose
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Eric Rescorla
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stephen Farrell
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alissa Cooper
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Toerless Eckert
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jari Arkko
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Brian E Carpenter
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled otroan
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stewart Bryant
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Cullen Jennings
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Carlos M. Martinez
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Brian Trammell (IETF)
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Vittorio Bertola
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alissa Cooper
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Keith Moore
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Rich Kulawiec
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Job Snijders
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Lou Berger
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joel M. Halpern
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Paul Wouters
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Victor Kuarsingh
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fred Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Melchior Aelmans
AW: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled N.Leymann
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Christian Hopps
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Soininen, Jonne (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Randy Bush
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Bob Hinden
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John C Klensin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Scott O. Bradner
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Livingood, Jason
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Scott O. Bradner
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John Levine
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John Levine
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled George Michaelson
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Terry Manderson
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Salz, Rich
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled John C Klensin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Benoit Claise
In person versus virtual? Eliot Lear
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Chown
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled tom petch
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nick Hilliard
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Chown
Re: In person versus virtual? Tim Chown
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Christian
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Vittorio Bertola
Re: In person versus virtual? Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Leif Johansson
Re: In person versus virtual? Christian Hopps
Re: In person versus virtual? Marc Petit-Huguenin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Air Canada, was Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person … Paul Wouters
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Ole Jacobsen
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Khaled Omar
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Joel M. Halpern
RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Daniele Ceccarelli
Re: Madrid Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mary B
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Toerless Eckert
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nick Hilliard
RE: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Peter Saint-Andre
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Mikael Abrahamsson
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Marc Petit-Huguenin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael StJohns
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Jay Daley
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Robert Raszuk
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Stan Kalisch
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled S Moonesamy
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Carsten Bormann
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Michael Breuer
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
RE: Air Canada, was Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Per… Roni Even (A)
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled S Moonesamy
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Fernando Gont
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Adam Roach
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Rich Kulawiec
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Theodore Y. Ts'o
IETF 108 (i.e. "models to combat the ... the viru… Joseph Potvin
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Ross Finlayson
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Tim Bray
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Keith Moore
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Alexandre Petrescu
Re: IETF 107 Vancouver In-Person Meeting Cancelled Nico Williams