Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input

Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com> Tue, 24 May 2016 14:37 UTC

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Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
From: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <2b01eb8f-d319-7d20-0f84-9a774f9e0e44@nostrum.com>
Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 17:37:26 +0300
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References: <D3662363.190A96%jon.peterson@neustar.biz> <CAP8yD=spam0tQdfD-ssA6y_n-cuugHtrHKwTYieSruo8SMg_VQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHkmkwtEtDk4sPv3GjkrSFqOdRV3HBA5i2_uZu3X2D4RxSF4wA@mail.gmail.com> <2e95fd51-23b8-39e7-d4ca-a9fc9d49559c@gmail.com> <CAHkmkwsf3YfFfR7jUHYnaw6dCrasMOazjbXPJRRhZS28k8HV0w@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1605241405210.28372@uplift.swm.pp.se> <714DDDE2-562D-488A-AAAA-F8DE3C2CA97D@consulintel.es> <FE76F502-617E-4190-BFF5-649EC9CFECAC@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBMPAFdLwZTr7TCJC-tZ+X=CKGzQ7Jp0zqDO86PdPn6YvQ@mail.gmail.com> <8D82EA4F-1275-436C-8030-1E799F5D7F59@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBOCtk6JK_3w2_L87oyze+dfgy7fFyU7QrGmGgEtta1oZA@mail.gmail.com> <1CA535AB-CAC4-49CB-B094-AAA7FE3119FB@consulintel.es> <2b01eb8f-d319-7d20-0f84-9a774f9e0e44@nostrum.com>
To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Cc: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>, jordi.palet@consulintel.es
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And does that mean it should count more?  Less?

> On 24 May 2016, at 5:33 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
> 
> One of the things on your list is completely unlike the others.
> 
> #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 affect everyone equally.
> 
> #5 does not.
> 
> That's pretty fundamental to this discussion.
> 
> /a
> 
> On 5/24/16 09:28, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>> Do we really want to debate this now and in this list?
>> 
>> My suggestion was looking into “hopefully” we don’t start that way with the first case Singapore, because then I will must take all the points in the “Topics” section of the web site you suggested.
>> 
>> Just to name a few (not in any particular order), which are relevant to countries that we visited already, and some that we visit often:
>> 
>> 1) Freedom of Speech
>> 2) Death penalty
>> 3) Torture
>> 4) Justice
>> 5) LGBT rights
>> 6) Free use of guns
>> 
>> As said, if we go that way, we will end up in reducing to the half the number of possible countries from the ones we have already been.
>> 
>> Saludos,
>> Jordi
>> 
>> 
>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 16:18
>> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>> 
>>> It seems like generally most countries have some human rights issues to complain about. Could you please indicate which countries we would be free to visit under your proposed rule?
>>> -Ekr
>>> 
>>> P.S. You might find https://www.hrw.org/ useful here.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:50 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the context:
>>> 
>>> “IF” we decide not to go to Singapore, then we must avoid going to ANY country that is against human rights, including death penalty.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Saludos,
>>> Jordi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>>> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 15:46
>>> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:25 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I will go further:
>>>> 
>>>>      The same must apply for any country where death penalty is still applied.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So I take it you oppose meeting in Singapore?
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Ekr
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Saludos,
>>>> Jordi
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>> De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>>> Responder a: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:22
>>>> Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>> 
>>>>> +1
>>>>> 
>>>>> Saludos,
>>>>> Jordi
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>>> De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>>>>> Organización: People's Front Against WWW
>>>>> Responder a: <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>>>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:09
>>>>> Para: Harish Pillay <harish.pillay@gmail.com>
>>>>> CC: <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Harish Pillay wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ever used. That is my world experience. When I travel to the US and
>>>>>>> I see people carrying weapons, how am I supposed to react/respond?
>>>>>> Let me +1 this here, I am seriously scared for my life whenever I interact
>>>>>> with law enforcement officers in the US, just from the fact that I know
>>>>>> they have to interact with armed people all the time and have to be
>>>>>> cautious that anyone they interact with has a decent likelyhood to be
>>>>>> armed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If we can't go to Singapore because they happen to have anti-LGBT laws on
>>>>>> the books, then I suggest we do not have any further meetings in USA at
>>>>>> all, especially not states that have stand-your-ground laws on their
>>>>>> books.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As opposed to Singapore where anti-LGBT laws aren't really enforced, in
>>>>>> USA these kinds of laws seems to be on the rise instead of things getting
>>>>>> better.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> **********************************************
>>>>> IPv4 is over
>>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>>>>> http://www.consulintel.es
>>>>> The IPv6 Company
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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