Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input

John Hoe <> Thu, 26 May 2016 15:43 UTC

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From: John Hoe <>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 23:42:52 +0800
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Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
To: Melinda Shore <>
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Hello Melinda, everyone,

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:37 AM, Melinda Shore <>

> On 5/24/16 9:26 AM, Yoav Nir wrote:
>> I do not doubt that it sucks to be a gay or bisexual male living in
>> Singapore. Spending a week there for work should be fine.
> I think it's hard to understand a problem that you haven't
> lived.  One of the things that happens when you live under
> conditions of legal (or not) discrimination is that you
> learn to negotiate it, build private safe spaces, and so on.
> You understand the constraints within which you need to
> operate.  Visitors are actually at a disadvantage in that
> regard.
> Nobody here has been able to answer questions about what
> would happen if someone in Ted's family were to need to be
> hospitalized while visiting Singapore, what would happen if
> something happened involving the police (say, a mugging or
> a traffic accident), and so on.  The assurances we've gotten
> haven't been reassuring at all, as they've tended to take
> the form of hearsay.  "I'm sure it would be fine" does not
> actually answer any questions.  "Those laws are not enforced"
> does not address family legal relationships, and so on.
The questions ^^^^^ posed seems largely pragmatic IMO as a Singaporean.

Why don't IETF bring all these questions up to the Law Minister (, or, I'm not sure, Ministry of
Foreign Affairs (, or contact a Singaporean law

Also, pardon me for not keeping up to track with the discussion, but based
on the way the paragraph was crafted, are there people in this discussion
who think that tourists who come to Singapore won't get the help they need
(medical in case of accident, protection in case of mugging for example) if
they happen to be LGBT, or such tourists will get bullied or physically