Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input

JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Tue, 24 May 2016 14:46 UTC

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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 16:45:59 +0200
Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <3760430E-C8F2-4717-9722-C6AEF5C987DE@consulintel.es>
Thread-Topic: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
References: <D3662363.190A96%jon.peterson@neustar.biz> <CAP8yD=spam0tQdfD-ssA6y_n-cuugHtrHKwTYieSruo8SMg_VQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHkmkwtEtDk4sPv3GjkrSFqOdRV3HBA5i2_uZu3X2D4RxSF4wA@mail.gmail.com> <2e95fd51-23b8-39e7-d4ca-a9fc9d49559c@gmail.com> <CAHkmkwsf3YfFfR7jUHYnaw6dCrasMOazjbXPJRRhZS28k8HV0w@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1605241405210.28372@uplift.swm.pp.se> <714DDDE2-562D-488A-AAAA-F8DE3C2CA97D@consulintel.es> <FE76F502-617E-4190-BFF5-649EC9CFECAC@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBMPAFdLwZTr7TCJC-tZ+X=CKGzQ7Jp0zqDO86PdPn6YvQ@mail.gmail.com> <8D82EA4F-1275-436C-8030-1E799F5D7F59@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBOCtk6JK_3w2_L87oyze+dfgy7fFyU7QrGmGgEtta1oZA@mail.gmail.com> <1CA535AB-CAC4-49CB-B094-AAA7FE3119FB@consulintel.es> <2b01eb8f-d319-7d20-0f84-9a774f9e0e44@nostrum.com> <C01AE269-3168-4B6A-B8D8-D97230288302@gmail.com>
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Exactly!

So should we decide if we want to count to what % of participants it will affect by each possible item?

or

Should we ignore anything that is not related to “getting the work done”? and that means probably only a war or similar global situation can mean selecting a venue or cancelling it?

If we try to stick to any point in the middle ALWAYS there will be even a small group of participants affected with a specific venue.

Regards,
Jordi


-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
Responder a: <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 16:37
Para: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>rg>, Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input

>And does that mean it should count more?  Less?
>
>> On 24 May 2016, at 5:33 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>> 
>> One of the things on your list is completely unlike the others.
>> 
>> #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 affect everyone equally.
>> 
>> #5 does not.
>> 
>> That's pretty fundamental to this discussion.
>> 
>> /a
>> 
>> On 5/24/16 09:28, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>>> Do we really want to debate this now and in this list?
>>> 
>>> My suggestion was looking into “hopefully” we don’t start that way with the first case Singapore, because then I will must take all the points in the “Topics” section of the web site you suggested.
>>> 
>>> Just to name a few (not in any particular order), which are relevant to countries that we visited already, and some that we visit often:
>>> 
>>> 1) Freedom of Speech
>>> 2) Death penalty
>>> 3) Torture
>>> 4) Justice
>>> 5) LGBT rights
>>> 6) Free use of guns
>>> 
>>> As said, if we go that way, we will end up in reducing to the half the number of possible countries from the ones we have already been.
>>> 
>>> Saludos,
>>> Jordi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>>> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 16:18
>>> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>> 
>>>> It seems like generally most countries have some human rights issues to complain about. Could you please indicate which countries we would be free to visit under your proposed rule?
>>>> -Ekr
>>>> 
>>>> P.S. You might find https://www.hrw.org/ useful here.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:50 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In the context:
>>>> 
>>>> “IF” we decide not to go to Singapore, then we must avoid going to ANY country that is against human rights, including death penalty.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Saludos,
>>>> Jordi
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>>>> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 15:46
>>>> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>>> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:25 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will go further:
>>>>> 
>>>>>      The same must apply for any country where death penalty is still applied.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So I take it you oppose meeting in Singapore?
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Ekr
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Saludos,
>>>>> Jordi
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>>> De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>>>> Responder a: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:22
>>>>> Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>>> 
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Saludos,
>>>>>> Jordi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>>>> De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>>>>>> Organización: People's Front Against WWW
>>>>>> Responder a: <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>>>>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:09
>>>>>> Para: Harish Pillay <harish.pillay@gmail.com>
>>>>>> CC: <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Harish Pillay wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ever used. That is my world experience. When I travel to the US and
>>>>>>>> I see people carrying weapons, how am I supposed to react/respond?
>>>>>>> Let me +1 this here, I am seriously scared for my life whenever I interact
>>>>>>> with law enforcement officers in the US, just from the fact that I know
>>>>>>> they have to interact with armed people all the time and have to be
>>>>>>> cautious that anyone they interact with has a decent likelyhood to be
>>>>>>> armed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If we can't go to Singapore because they happen to have anti-LGBT laws on
>>>>>>> the books, then I suggest we do not have any further meetings in USA at
>>>>>>> all, especially not states that have stand-your-ground laws on their
>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As opposed to Singapore where anti-LGBT laws aren't really enforced, in
>>>>>>> USA these kinds of laws seems to be on the rise instead of things getting
>>>>>>> better.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> **********************************************
>>>>>> IPv4 is over
>>>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>>>>>> http://www.consulintel.es
>>>>>> The IPv6 Company
>>>>>> 
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