Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input

kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com Tue, 24 May 2016 14:51 UTC

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Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
From: kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com
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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 10:51:01 -0400
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References: <D3662363.190A96%jon.peterson@neustar.biz> <CAP8yD=spam0tQdfD-ssA6y_n-cuugHtrHKwTYieSruo8SMg_VQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHkmkwtEtDk4sPv3GjkrSFqOdRV3HBA5i2_uZu3X2D4RxSF4wA@mail.gmail.com> <2e95fd51-23b8-39e7-d4ca-a9fc9d49559c@gmail.com> <CAHkmkwsf3YfFfR7jUHYnaw6dCrasMOazjbXPJRRhZS28k8HV0w@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1605241405210.28372@uplift.swm.pp.se> <714DDDE2-562D-488A-AAAA-F8DE3C2CA97D@consulintel.es> <FE76F502-617E-4190-BFF5-649EC9CFECAC@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBMPAFdLwZTr7TCJC-tZ+X=CKGzQ7Jp0zqDO86PdPn6YvQ@mail.gmail.com> <8D82EA4F-1275-436C-8030-1E799F5D7F59@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBOCtk6JK_3w2_L87oyze+dfgy7fFyU7QrGmGgEtta1oZA@mail.gmail.com> <1CA535AB-CAC4-49CB-B094-AAA7FE3119FB@consulintel.es> <CAL02cgSEo2MO3opzfu2nV9x27qw+a+t_jaHeHfUdvMZBsANmsQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
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> On May 24, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:28 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>> Do we really want to debate this now and in this list?
>> 
>> My suggestion was looking into “hopefully” we don’t start that way with the first case Singapore, because then I will must take all the points in the “Topics” section of the web site you suggested.
>> 
>> Just to name a few (not in any particular order), which are relevant to countries that we visited already, and some that we visit often:
>> 
>> 1) Freedom of Speech
>> 2) Death penalty
>> 3) Torture
>> 4) Justice
>> 5) LGBT rights
>> 6) Free use of guns
>> 
>> As said, if we go that way, we will end up in reducing to the half the number of possible countries from the ones we have already been.
> 
> I think EKR's point is that if we don't make any distinction among these, we'll end up only having virtual meetings because we can't go anywhere.  Human Rights Watch has a page on every major country highlighting abuses there.

I think more to the point, it's about creating an inclusive 'place' to get work done.  Only one was a matter of inclusivity.

Kathleen 

> 
> We need to make smart distinction here.  Yes, issues of justice and torture are very important.  But they are pretty unlikely to affect an IETF meeting.
> 
> --Richard
> 
>  
>> 
>> Saludos,
>> Jordi
>> 
>> 
>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 16:18
>> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>> 
>> >It seems like generally most countries have some human rights issues to complain about. Could you please indicate which countries we would be free to visit under your proposed rule?
>> >-Ekr
>> >
>> >P.S. You might find https://www.hrw.org/ useful here.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:50 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>> >
>> >In the context:
>> >
>> >“IF” we decide not to go to Singapore, then we must avoid going to ANY country that is against human rights, including death penalty.
>> >
>> >
>> >Saludos,
>> >Jordi
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Mensaje original-----
>> >De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> >Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> >Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 15:46
>> >Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>> >CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>> >Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:25 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>I will go further:
>> >>
>> >>      The same must apply for any country where death penalty is still applied.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>So I take it you oppose meeting in Singapore?
>> >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-Ekr
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Saludos,
>> >>Jordi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-----Mensaje original-----
>> >>De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>> >>Responder a: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>> >>Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:22
>> >>Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
>> >>Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>> >>
>> >>>+1
>> >>>
>> >>>Saludos,
>> >>>Jordi
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>-----Mensaje original-----
>> >>>De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>> >>>Organización: People's Front Against WWW
>> >>>Responder a: <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>> >>>Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:09
>> >>>Para: Harish Pillay <harish.pillay@gmail.com>
>> >>>CC: <ietf@ietf.org>
>> >>>Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>> >>>
>> >>>>On Mon, 23 May 2016, Harish Pillay wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> ever used. That is my world experience. When I travel to the US and
>> >>>>> I see people carrying weapons, how am I supposed to react/respond?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Let me +1 this here, I am seriously scared for my life whenever I interact
>> >>>>with law enforcement officers in the US, just from the fact that I know
>> >>>>they have to interact with armed people all the time and have to be
>> >>>>cautious that anyone they interact with has a decent likelyhood to be
>> >>>>armed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>>If we can't go to Singapore because they happen to have anti-LGBT laws on
>> >>>>the books, then I suggest we do not have any further meetings in USA at
>> >>>>all, especially not states that have stand-your-ground laws on their
>> >>>>books.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>As opposed to Singapore where anti-LGBT laws aren't really enforced, in
>> >>>>USA these kinds of laws seems to be on the rise instead of things getting
>> >>>>better.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>--
>> >>>>Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>**********************************************
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>> >>>http://www.consulintel.es
>> >>>The IPv6 Company
>> >>>
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