Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input

Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Tue, 24 May 2016 14:34 UTC

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Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <D3662363.190A96%jon.peterson@neustar.biz> <CAP8yD=spam0tQdfD-ssA6y_n-cuugHtrHKwTYieSruo8SMg_VQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHkmkwtEtDk4sPv3GjkrSFqOdRV3HBA5i2_uZu3X2D4RxSF4wA@mail.gmail.com> <2e95fd51-23b8-39e7-d4ca-a9fc9d49559c@gmail.com> <CAHkmkwsf3YfFfR7jUHYnaw6dCrasMOazjbXPJRRhZS28k8HV0w@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1605241405210.28372@uplift.swm.pp.se> <714DDDE2-562D-488A-AAAA-F8DE3C2CA97D@consulintel.es> <FE76F502-617E-4190-BFF5-649EC9CFECAC@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBMPAFdLwZTr7TCJC-tZ+X=CKGzQ7Jp0zqDO86PdPn6YvQ@mail.gmail.com> <8D82EA4F-1275-436C-8030-1E799F5D7F59@consulintel.es> <CABcZeBOCtk6JK_3w2_L87oyze+dfgy7fFyU7QrGmGgEtta1oZA@mail.gmail.com> <1CA535AB-CAC4-49CB-B094-AAA7FE3119FB@consulintel.es>
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 09:33:25 -0500
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One of the things on your list is completely unlike the others.

#1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 affect everyone equally.

#5 does not.

That's pretty fundamental to this discussion.

/a

On 5/24/16 09:28, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> Do we really want to debate this now and in this list?
>
> My suggestion was looking into “hopefully” we don’t start that way with the first case Singapore, because then I will must take all the points in the “Topics” section of the web site you suggested.
>
> Just to name a few (not in any particular order), which are relevant to countries that we visited already, and some that we visit often:
>
> 1) Freedom of Speech
> 2) Death penalty
> 3) Torture
> 4) Justice
> 5) LGBT rights
> 6) Free use of guns
>
> As said, if we go that way, we will end up in reducing to the half the number of possible countries from the ones we have already been.
>
> Saludos,
> Jordi
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 16:18
> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>
>> It seems like generally most countries have some human rights issues to complain about. Could you please indicate which countries we would be free to visit under your proposed rule?
>> -Ekr
>>
>> P.S. You might find https://www.hrw.org/ useful here.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:50 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>>
>> In the context:
>>
>> “IF” we decide not to go to Singapore, then we must avoid going to ANY country that is against human rights, including death penalty.
>>
>>
>> Saludos,
>> Jordi
>>
>>
>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> De: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> Responder a: <ekr@rtfm.com>
>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 15:46
>> Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>> CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:25 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>>>
>>> I will go further:
>>>
>>>       The same must apply for any country where death penalty is still applied.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So I take it you oppose meeting in Singapore?
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore
>>>
>>>
>>> -Ekr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Saludos,
>>> Jordi
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>> De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>> Responder a: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:22
>>> Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Saludos,
>>>> Jordi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>> De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>>>> Organización: People's Front Against WWW
>>>> Responder a: <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>>>> Fecha: martes, 24 de mayo de 2016, 14:09
>>>> Para: Harish Pillay <harish.pillay@gmail.com>
>>>> CC: <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>> Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] IETF 100, Singapore -- proposed path forward and request for input
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Harish Pillay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ever used. That is my world experience. When I travel to the US and
>>>>>> I see people carrying weapons, how am I supposed to react/respond?
>>>>> Let me +1 this here, I am seriously scared for my life whenever I interact
>>>>> with law enforcement officers in the US, just from the fact that I know
>>>>> they have to interact with armed people all the time and have to be
>>>>> cautious that anyone they interact with has a decent likelyhood to be
>>>>> armed.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html
>>>>>
>>>>> If we can't go to Singapore because they happen to have anti-LGBT laws on
>>>>> the books, then I suggest we do not have any further meetings in USA at
>>>>> all, especially not states that have stand-your-ground laws on their
>>>>> books.
>>>>>
>>>>> As opposed to Singapore where anti-LGBT laws aren't really enforced, in
>>>>> USA these kinds of laws seems to be on the rise instead of things getting
>>>>> better.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> **********************************************
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>>>>
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