Re: [rtcweb] revisiting MTI

Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net> Mon, 15 December 2014 22:18 UTC

Return-Path: <peter@andyet.net>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FCC1A01CB for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:18:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xfjFAVfO-xCz for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ie0-f173.google.com (mail-ie0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C63B1A01A8 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id y20so11723899ier.32 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:18:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Wp2ZBDOfzoscXdb5gtx1K1Knp+3OF1jH/IPkzxYE2lI=; b=TIU8Mjf7QqnqN1xKXhfnnzmSp4o+HZVaRkVGDogpW/GAY2EfNbj7m1xWoGqyY5ujbL yDfzhOP81RWjZ1s/6ZgkmwB/xd67pfHEc5YGjkzDGQwmQ9Bj+TM4/guQrqClDu+d0SOj N+lF0rX/qXC0ykrqrQ3JGCQtWGlNb27WRxzTBFvcb4N7+EZQMTSN1L5+icgHLS6gPMJK EPVjh+vqi9YWmCOrd+r3GbFT96TFDBuj/7Hi5OI7maTayoRmFk9msPZAXfhNDr1U0nSD qQHYGl7bQWDXVBmSh2c8QQRSSzV0K+SJ2jUQe9z9Sne9DQvR6chwry6p3rn2iyWuJp8q LQWw==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlWWgE1Gy35hQgcGpU2m1niZGMGKN1kg/99hNB3jf3H3L1GLUiAZdZOYVFVeb2PC2Oungc/
X-Received: by 10.50.153.109 with SMTP id vf13mr20134463igb.41.1418681891521; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:18:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from aither.local (c-73-34-202-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net. [73.34.202.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d138sm5292652iod.37.2014.12.15.14.18.10 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:18:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <548F5E22.2040605@andyet.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:18:10 -0700
From: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
References: <548AFB1A.1040405@andyet.net> <548AFF76.1010003@nostrum.com> <CALiegfmH6hWp6nuArv8YyPcgq6SCd9x-dU0cxAaKJLrmb0hc_g@mail.gmail.com> <548B047F.9090704@nostrum.com> <56448CBD-FB31-4468-B449-497652FCAAEB@apple.com> <548B7EFF.5080105@andyet.net> <CALiegfkMUzQVOKk433d4TZtvenQWQwChYF2vc7HMED2s2wHZ5Q@mail.gmail.com> <B52D8E91-5D96-4960-8DDE-DD970014DE5D@ieca.com> <CALiegfnRvgDK4EnDBSn76YKktWLMjShsQRP6byCRqZC07WaVqw@mail.gmail.com> <548F0E28.8040503@andyet.net> <20141215192409.GN47023@verdi> <548F54A5.2060105@andyet.net> <CA+9kkMDNhRdbzCs9vrqDeD4CoWWK1xS5o0z3jL0DvNpDuLfCPw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+9kkMDNhRdbzCs9vrqDeD4CoWWK1xS5o0z3jL0DvNpDuLfCPw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/GqoIqLhCdrvOR7xcmUdXF47nFSE
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] revisiting MTI
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 22:18:13 -0000

On 12/15/14, 3:03 PM, Ted Hardie wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
> <peter@andyet.net <mailto:peter@andyet.net>> wrote:
>
>     Not as far as I can see.
>
>     Ten years ago if we'd had this discussion, H.261 might have been
>     MTI. Ten years from now, H.264 will seem ancient, too.
>
>     I fully expect that someone in the IETF (perhaps not us) will
>     revisit the MTI decision once we have better alternatives.
>
>     Peter
>
>
> ​The nice thing is that our current model allows us to have nice things
> right away; as soon as they are in common, they may be selected by
> negotiation.  What the MTI gives us is a way to avoid interoperability
> failure.  So the key question isn't really "Is there something better?"
> but "Is the current MTI so bad that folks aren't willing to use it, so
> we are once again at risk of interoperability failure?".

Some folks have expressed a concern that whatever we choose as an MTI 
codec now must always be an MTI codec. I'm trying to allay that concern 
by saying that yes, indeed, we can change our MTI codec(s) in the future 
if we please (naturally, keeping interoperability in mind at that future 
time).

Peter