Re: [rtcweb] confirming sense of the room: mti codec

Alexandre GOUAILLARD <agouaillard@gmail.com> Tue, 09 December 2014 02:41 UTC

Return-Path: <agouaillard@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F081A010C for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 18:41:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kiCNLA2l8DA1 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 18:41:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-oi0-x22f.google.com (mail-oi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4DB01A00AA for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 18:41:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-oi0-f47.google.com with SMTP id v63so4325102oia.6 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 18:41:42 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=woy4NP9Ue83A0cCQ4jChxhUIDIU27n4Ecxks7o/FUJU=; b=zflFQ19kvHOptBqlo50xfdJCTyUFVb9ezo+IezrxhuUivDB15F2LfDek/vwfGpyX8V et0u/tk2+4g+qP6f+AxBnlq0q7JQdIlVwGn8pE6xtFPfMCy7rg5lj7k8ol1msVBOjyGz 4tO7x9+lBxPho226xJ2SMVihQHsOzY1leOg/5ucPycozsQj0rS+lATWrTEA3ZNAgkfZ6 nPLmvPFf/tBjBu9to4D370UVLJICdGLjneGh857rJ8zoFNQaJPNMH7IzCZTrowTHdAUV rh+yez7vOB23hy/hYkaa7Znjkp1MEyN4XY3zTtfVn6zS+YusbF1QgNLbZt8VmmXJ9MwN Vgpg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.182.87.37 with SMTP id u5mr391347obz.38.1418092902158; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 18:41:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.202.85.133 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 18:41:41 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <21E818AE-0F44-4BA1-AA59-8322C982446E@apple.com>
References: <E3FA0C72-48C5-465E-AE15-EB19D8D563A7@ieca.com> <54820E74.90201@mozilla.com> <5485E627.5050706@jesup.org> <CALiegfn0AH+2FKXJ2b3JWob-pETdD8fXS-OM0iq8p+txdq+mSQ@mail.gmail.com> <21E818AE-0F44-4BA1-AA59-8322C982446E@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 10:41:41 +0800
Message-ID: <CAHgZEq7pHhEF5+8a+8-pcajDGYyNK6-VHt9ePEQx9HH+aFS47Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD <agouaillard@gmail.com>
To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c7210b118580509bf7b2b
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/bdNGR0KWv-2oTxgSjRiS_Dxnp64
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] confirming sense of the room: mti codec
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 02:41:46 -0000

I support the rough consensus as presented by the chair.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:19 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:

>
> > On Dec 8, 2014, at 10:00 , Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:
> >
> > 2014-12-08 18:55 GMT+01:00 Randell Jesup <randell-ietf@jesup.org>rg>:
> >> +1 - it's by no means my preferred solution, but it's one I can live
> with,
> >> and better than the alternative of the status-quo - no MTI at all.  If
> it
> >> wasn't for OpenH264, my answer would be different.
> >>
> >> I can't see adopting H.264 as sole MTI, and I can't see that we'd get
> >> consensus to adopt VP8 as sole MTI.
> >
> > There was a much better solution:
> >
> > - Don't make VP8 nor H264 MTI.
> > - So for now no MTI video codec.
> > - And a W3C compromise: First video codec 100% royalty free would
> > become MTI in WebRTC.
> >
> > Things would be exactly as they are now, but at least we avoid a
> > "MUST" that will be ignored by 50% of the market.
>
> That would be more honest, indeed. It is effectively where we are going to
> be.  And it offers a carrot in the right direction.
>
> I am curious to know how many of the people supporting the proposed
> position actually would implement both encode and decode of both codecs?
> This follows from comments on this thread that people who feel they fall
> into a different category are asking others to solve their problem.
>
> So, rather than +1, please say “I would expect to implement both”
> (non-binding, of course) — it would be a more useful thing to see, I think.
>
>
>
> Another possible choice:
>
> * admit that we already have possible non-interoperability
> (WebRTC-compatible Endpoints that choose differently), and that anyone who
> doesn’t want to do both will say that this what they are making (as was
> suggested):  simply delete the requirement or definitions for WebRTC
> User-agent and Device. Nothing stops those that want to from implementing
> both, without or without the mandate.  I don’t think this would make any
> material difference to what happens, but it makes the spec and reality a
> little closer.
>
>
>
> Finally, I wonder, what would it be like if we actually tried to get
> closer to interop: ALL endpoints — anything that can operate at one end of
> a WebRTC session, be it device, UA, gateway, compatible-endpoint, whatever
> — must be able to decode (actually, offer to receive) both, and must be
> able to encode at least one?  I’d have to think about the consequences of
> doing decode-only, but it’s a loss less work than a decent encoder, for a
> start. This would result in interop if people actually did it.
>
>
> David Singer
> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>



-- 
Alex. Gouaillard, PhD, PhD, MBA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTO - Temasys Communications, S'pore / Mountain View
President - CoSMo Software, Cambridge, MA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sg.linkedin.com/agouaillard

   -