Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF

Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Thu, 25 February 2021 20:12 UTC

Return-Path: <fgont@si6networks.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59F73A1FAD; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:12:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nWisjCzqB5pY; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:12:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D4273A1F54; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:12:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [IPv6:2800:810:464:2b9:a449:5f08:346f:44bd] (unknown [IPv6:2800:810:464:2b9:a449:5f08:346f:44bd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A4F35280615; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:12:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "gendispatch@ietf.org" <gendispatch@ietf.org>
References: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com> <3c2d646d-f18d-4d88-b458-29dbd486432b@beta.fastmail.com> <446A8D6B-E624-49E0-B67E-D1F8AFC794E2@lastpresslabel.com> <28ac1e86-f641-b9e8-0f61-6ff442feaa90@si6networks.com> <LO2P265MB057322BA95B1B44D4175356BC29E9@LO2P265MB0573.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <b24ce0e9-8912-12b1-af8a-6024ae83288f@si6networks.com> <25E1B1D5-E8F1-4053-A1E0-6B2948577E84@akamai.com> <3a8dca6d-0aca-d578-0f7a-3f68e2811bad@si6networks.com> <9FBF7792-8507-45F2-B06C-2173BCDF7D4C@akamai.com>
From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Message-ID: <4fc62af0-cbf0-c923-5e24-fc0dfc1de996@si6networks.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:09:43 -0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <9FBF7792-8507-45F2-B06C-2173BCDF7D4C@akamai.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/napfFjG9lbR0Lp7096dOpty4o74>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:12:43 -0000

On 25/2/21 16:48, Salz, Rich wrote:
>> If a WG somewhat requires use of github, then the barrier is
>> there.
> 
> Since no person, or no WG, has infinite resources, almost any
> attempts to engage some people mean that some others feel left out.
> (Note the almost)

Why do you think git/github will engage somebody that would otherwise 
not be engaged?


> The IETF still maintains that no matter how git/GitHub are used, the
> classic mechanisms of email, etc., still must be used.

When discussions end up spread over gihub and email lists, that's not a 
nice feature, IMO.


> Does that mean
> some conversations aren't fully discussed on the email, and some
> people feel left out? Yes.  Some people also dislike MIME email,

I use the least common denominator: plain text email.

Still most email clients will mangle patches sent via email -- which 
happens to be the normal workflow some projects such as the linux kernel 
and openbsd -- so at least for those things you'll probably resort to 
mutt or the like.



> and
> the moving away from IPv4 and FTP.  Things change.  For myself, I am
> just glad that we're not commenting on things via SMS.  I am tempted
> to create an OnlyFans account for ACME or HTTPAPI, tho. :)

My take is: if the tool improves your workflow, go for it. If it will 
get in the way, don't.

-- 
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492