Re: document writing/editing tools used by IETF

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sun, 28 February 2021 23:20 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0D93A0D29 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:20:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.002
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5wVfAXX-b2lp for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:20:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BC463A0D27 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:20:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2917389AD for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:25:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OfOBj-fNlij4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:25:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E10389AC for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:25:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD3E70D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:20:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: document writing/editing tools used by IETF
In-Reply-To: <s1f0vo$ejp$1@gal.iecc.com>
References: <20210227190200.06ED46F10439@ary.qy> <4064.1614454347@localhost> <s1f0vo$ejp$1@gal.iecc.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 18:20:36 -0500
Message-ID: <3196.1614554436@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/stMxYjLKX7E7k-BPgAPaNn47s-A>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:20:41 -0000

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
    > Indeed, but that was many decades ago. There are some ways in which the
    > IETF is cutting edge, some in which we are amusingly backward. Most of
    > the people I deal with can send an e-mail that says "I highlighted the
    > changes in yellow" and all of their correspondents see the yellow
    > text. Try that here. Remember that MIME was invented in the IETF and
    > HTML down the virtual hall from here, both about 30 years ago.

Yup, and those same people also click on the links that install malware on
their computer, and require billions of dollars/year of protection against
trojans.

This is partially our fault, because we let text/html be a thing rather than
the much safer text/rich.  And we continue to allow text/html on our lists
for reasons I don't understand.

(I'm among those who don't render text/html by default, even though I could)

[Besides, highlighting changes in *yellow* is stupid, and it represents a
failure of our protocols.  You should highlight changes as mark-up, or as a
delta against a webdav]

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide