IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [rtcweb] Matthew's Objections: was Re: Straw Poll on Video Codec Alternatives

"Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)" <matthew.kaufman@skype.net> Tue, 10 December 2013 22:34 UTC

Return-Path: <matthew.kaufman@skype.net>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C266C1AE17C; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:34:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V-HlBLtezEnk; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:34:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0150.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.150]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4FA1AE1BB; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:34:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from BY2PR03CA034.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.242.234.155) by BY2PR03MB272.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.242.37.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.837.10; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:34:01 +0000
Received: from BN1BFFO11FD016.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:154) by BY2PR03CA034.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:2c2c::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.837.10 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:34:01 +0000
Received: from mail.microsoft.com (131.107.125.37) by BN1BFFO11FD016.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.825.6 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:34:01 +0000
Received: from TK5EX14MBXC295.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.1.185]) by TK5EX14HUBC105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.80.48]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.002; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:33:07 +0000
From: "Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)" <matthew.kaufman@skype.net>
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>, Gonzalo Camarillo <Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com>, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, Cullen Jennings <fluffy@cisco.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Matthew's Objections: was Re: [rtcweb] Straw Poll on Video Codec Alternatives
Thread-Index: AQHO9QObn//sJVvSTUCzxK/qQYS/0JpMgCGggACZUgCAAOnh8A==
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:33:07 +0000
Message-ID: <AE1A6B5FD507DC4FB3C5166F3A05A484419289C7@TK5EX14MBXC295.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <CA+9kkMBSpDLJBBbPxgyMUi+bi3aw3D8zpSXcAvQ4koi115QqBg@mail.gmail.com> <AE1A6B5FD507DC4FB3C5166F3A05A48441927F3A@TK5EX14MBXC295.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <52A6D092.3090701@ericsson.com>
In-Reply-To: <52A6D092.3090701@ericsson.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [157.54.51.37]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:131.107.125.37; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009001)(13464003)(189002)(199002)(51704005)(20776003)(69226001)(55846006)(90146001)(561944002)(33656001)(87936001)(47776003)(87266001)(63696002)(66066001)(80022001)(23726002)(4396001)(81686001)(50466002)(56816005)(15975445006)(6806004)(81816001)(2656002)(65816001)(85306002)(47976001)(56776001)(85806002)(49866001)(47446002)(81342001)(77096001)(76796001)(59766001)(15202345003)(74502001)(74662001)(46102001)(76786001)(74366001)(83322001)(19580395003)(53806001)(47736001)(81542001)(74706001)(46406003)(80976001)(54316002)(54356001)(50986001)(74876001)(77982001)(85852003)(44976005)(19580405001)(51856001)(31966008)(76482001)(79102001)(83072002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR03MB272; H:mail.microsoft.com; CLIP:131.107.125.37; FPR:; RD:InfoDomainNonexistent; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
X-O365ENT-EOP-Header: Message processed by - O365_ENT: Allow from ranges (Engineering ONLY)
X-Forefront-PRVS: 005671E15D
X-OriginatorOrg: skype.net
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Matthew's Objections: was Re: Straw Poll on Video Codec Alternatives
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:34:15 -0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com]
> 
> No, we have not requested WG consensus for this one. This is a decision we
> chair have made ourselves. And the reason for this is while the previous
> process proposal did require WG consensus to be used, this information
> seeking is something we chairs can initiate, perform. In this case we do
> believe that the time is best spent on performing this pool rather than
> discussing if it is going to be done or not. The WG will by the end of this poll
> have more information and a better understanding of the positions and
> objections against the various alternatives proposed.

Spending the Working Group's time on picking an MTI video codec at this point is just as disruptive to the vital work the WG needs to complete as it would be for me to stand in the corner of the next WG meeting continuously blowing a vuvuzela.

Since taking up valuable meeting time on this topic and considerable mailing list thread with this topic, we are no closer to a decision, and much more importantly, it appears that zero progress has been made on nothing else that the WG has signed up to deliver.

> > I am requesting that the chairs immediately suspend the "Straw Poll"
> > described below until such time as there is Working Group consensus to
> > spend the Working Group's time and energy conducting the poll and/or
> > to continue with the subsequent steps called out in "Next Steps in
> > Video Codec Selection Process" at
> > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg10448.html
> >
> 
> The WG chairs believe they have good motivations and rights to call for this
> straw poll. We will not suspend it. If you like to escalate your objection please
> contact our Area Director Gonzalo Camarillo.

I believe that the "straw poll" is both a thinly veiled recasting of the original "vote" proposal *and* that the Working Group is having its time and energy wasted on this progress. 

As a result, I am not confident at this time that the chairs are directing the Working Group in a way that will produce its chartered output in a timely manner.

The Area Director is already copied and I would like this message considered as escalation of my previous objection and request to suspend the poll.

Matthew Kaufman

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email