Re: [81attendees] diverse meeting locations (was: are we getting complacent? Good job!)

[Curtis Villamizar <[e-mail]>]

There are many things for IAOC to consider.  It is worth noting that attendance does not seem to be affected by location:  Quebec 1127, Prague 1229, Beijing 1207, Maastricht 1192, Anaheim 1248, Hiroshima 1152, Stockholm 1124, San Francisco 1186, Minneapolis 962, Dublin 1183, Philadelphia 1174, Vancouver 1128, Chicago 1175, Prague 1193, San Diego 1245, Montreal 1257, ...

Due to the country's restrictive policy regarding filtering the CN meeting was problematic, though in the end it was worked out.  I heard from one of the volunteers that sets up the venue that the host was uncooperative with regard to configuring the network, requiring the staff to discover the topology due to failure to communicate as equipment was deployed and having to configure unfamiliar equipment with the host providing equipment but little or no assistance in the equipment configuration.

My understanding is that the IAOC is having trouble getting sponsors for some locations in addition to noting that hotel rates are quite high in any place in the Far East that they have considered.

I prefer to stop second guessing IAOC and let them negotiate with potential sponsors and venues.

Curtis

From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Dae Young KIM
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 12:49 PM
To: Curtis Villamizar
Cc: Jakob Heitz; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [81attendees] diverse meeting locations (was: are we getting complacent? Good job!)

Hi, Curtis,

I've been attending many, of course not all, IETF meeting since mid 90s, so I do know the history you've described.

You said:

   "We really could consider where the majority of participants come from, which is not from Far East Asia, but we want IETF to be accessible to regions with a significant number of participants."

A good point, for minimization of the total cost/pain.

But, you went to far when you picked Africa as an example, although I start recognizing more about South American activities.

Take Far East Asia, more specifically. If you don't disagree too far, China, and India are growing both in terms of markets and technical contributions. (I'd reserve Japan, for it has already been far ahead.) And Corea is struggling to catch up with opportunities in the Internet, although it has had partial success in different business sectors.

Talking about the number of participants, if the meeting would be held nearer to these countries, for example(just for an example for developing my logic, if there's any logic), their participants would be much higher than otherwise.

I'm not sure if some people remember that for several years and meetings, Corea would rank within five top countries as IETF participants, and that mostly in NA and sometimes EU countries. (There haven only two JP meetings, one CN, and one KR meeting out of so many IETF meetings, you know). Sometimes, nearly 100 from Corea alone, from so small a country.

Now, it's China sending almost 150 people to every meeting, if I'm not wrong.

If the enthusiasm is such high from this region, their participation would grow much higher if they'd be given chance to host meetings near their region.

OK, the number is not all, you have to do technical contribution. This again would grow if there are exposed to more opportunities.

I mean.. the dominance of participation partly is affected by the continents where venues are placed.

It's not fair to say, after having dominantly more meetings in NA or EU, that there's little reason to go to FEA because they're a smaller portion. On the contrary, perhaps, the enthusiasm is higher in this region.

Here comes the word of consideration for geographical diversity. Or to be more exact. chasing after the center of gravity of enthusiasm or potential market grow or even technical contribution.

If one would say, we're larger, so we'll stick here around.... then, we're not maximizing our potential product.

Well, by now, I'm losing my emotion to continue my non-logic.

Since when has the human history been of such mutual respect and consideration? It's almost futile to talk about this non-secular argument.

So, be it. Sufferers would suffer, goers would go. No problem.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 3:40 AM, Curtis Villamizar <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
This thread wasn't really about meeting location so I changed the subject.

Just FYI - I've attended IETF on and off since 1992.  Attendance then had just broken 200.

\begin{aside}  % xml notation can confuse software so using latex notation (only confuses readers)

Up until the early 1990s most of the Internet infrastructure was funded by the US NSF (National Science Foundation), including much of the (small amount of) research and education networking in Europe and the Far East Asia.  Not surprising that meetings at that time were in NA, mostly US.

Meetings began to be held in Europe as well as North America in the early 1990s when there was significant activity in Europe that was funded by Europeans, a strong growth in European participation in IETF, and willing sponsors.

The Internet originated in NA, then Europe, but is now very much a global thing and we are now having IETF meetings all over the world.  We really could consider where the majority of participants come from, which is not from Far East Asia, but we want IETF to be accessible to regions with a significant number of participants.

\end{aside}

I'm not arguing that we should not hold meetings in diverse locations, but with your logic we should hold regular IETF meetings in Africa since they are more underprivileged than any other part of the world that we could expect participation from.  So far that has not happened probably because we would expect very few local participants and we may not be able to find a sponsor.

There have been suggestions that we meet in South America and Africa, but AFAIK no sponsors.  Travel logistics would likely be even more challenging, but as long as the destination had a sponsor, was reasonably accessible, and was safe to travel to, I'm sure IAOC would strongly consider it.

I don't think IAOC has been unfair in its site selection.  There are many factors for them to consider.

Curtis

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DY