Re: [81attendees] are we getting complacent? Good job!

Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Mon, 08 August 2011 18:20 UTC

Return-Path: <adam@nostrum.com>
X-Original-To: 81attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 81attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2FF21F8B74 for <81attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:20:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -101.544
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.335, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PLING_QUERY=1.39, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cSYSh0WBvvqX for <81attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B253A21F8B5E for <81attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dn3-110.estacado.net (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p78IKj0A091635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Aug 2011 13:20:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com)
Message-ID: <4E4028FC.8000205@nostrum.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 13:20:44 -0500
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Dae Young KIM <dykim@cnu.ac.kr>
References: <4E34C3A9.2020502@att.com> <A5B9F059BE69461F8008EBECD84A1E67@china.huawei.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6402713C27@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <3DA9637F-1C72-43CB-B040-49F2A6FF26D9@softarmor.com> <4E398F03.1000806@dcrocker.net> <CA6BA2FE-13E7-438F-B943-7659A37DB3C5@cisco.com> <744D8CA9-9C01-41A5-A22C-CDF2F4E904EF@fugue.com> <p06240611ca64d0f07a2b@loud.pensive.org> <alpine.OSX.2.01.1108072112110.14256@sjc-vpn7-506.cisco.com> <p06240601ca65afd19752@loud.pensive.org> <alpine.OSX.2.01.1108080830460.18801@sjc-vpn7-506.cisco.com> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D213914A1EBA927@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <CAFgODJfSOHdt-Lzz6bpnHSCSi5kLMu3Yjjh2xU5b35Dtwm5tRw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAFgODJfSOHdt-Lzz6bpnHSCSi5kLMu3Yjjh2xU5b35Dtwm5tRw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030705000104020307030308"
Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism)
Cc: "81attendees@ietf.org" <81attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [81attendees] are we getting complacent? Good job!
X-BeenThere: 81attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF 81 Attendee List <81attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/81attendees>, <mailto:81attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/81attendees>
List-Post: <mailto:81attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:81attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/81attendees>, <mailto:81attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 18:20:27 -0000

On 8/8/11 12:53 PM, Dae Young KIM wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Jakob Heitz <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com 
> <mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com>> wrote:
>
>     The IAOC doing a great job. Don't change a thing, guys.
>
>     The IETF is a global organization. It is important to
>     have meetings in diverse parts of the world to make sure
>     that anyone from anywhere can attend at least some of the time.
>
>
> +1.
>
> This thread reminds me of the struggles that a lot of 
> non-North-American(NA) participants, especially those from the 
> unprevileged corner of Far East Asia, had to go through for so many 
> meetings until now, and that with considerably lower budgets than 
> elsewhere.
>
> Without considerations for diversity, and with continuing NA-centric 
> criteria, and especially in this era of emerging new market regions, I 
> doubt whether IETF can continue to claim it's a global international 
> community, not any more NA-centric one.
>

Throwing "North America" into this mix does make for a convenient 
strawman that is very easy to rip apart. However, if you read the thread 
carefully, you would find scant evidence that anyone agitating for 
"major hubs" actually means "major North American hubs." (In fact, you 
would notice that the venue actually under discussion is... umm... in 
North America).

Try not to paint potentially legitimate feedback about the ease of 
travel to non-hub cities as ethnocentric attacks on the selection of 
continents. They aren't even marginally related, and it's insulting to 
insinuate otherwise.

/a