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Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> Tue, 04 October 2022 23:14 UTC

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From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:13:51 -0700
Message-ID: <CAChr6SwbaqQY-abJYH3JCKCptXdOwg8FHgR4noQHq+v4PbjJ1g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, last-call@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
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Hi,

Maybe it would help to know that there are similar critiques from the left
on these topics. Two examples would be:

"Virtue Hoarders: The Case against the Professional Managerial Class" and
"Tense Present: Democracy, English, and the Wars Over Usage".

But I think the overarching theme is that it's not news. It's easy enough
to just say "ok, what words are we using?" and get on with things.
Terminology discussions are an endless rathole. That's why wasting time
keeps coming up.

thanks,
Rob


On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 2:44 PM Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>
wrote:

> ty. den 04. 10. 2022 klokka 09.00 (+1300) skreiv Brian E Carpenter:
> > On 04-Oct-22 08:04, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> > ...
> > > - There is no clear explicit list of what is in evidence, instead we
> are asked to find that
> > >    evidence ourselves from long mailing lists, not knowing how far
> back judgements where made.
> >
> > Huh? The Last Call messages includes an explicit list of example
> messages, which in my opinion are sufficient on their own.
>
> In that case I will submit an emphatic "no support" to the motion.  I
> have read these messages, as well as refreshing on the entirety of the
> thread on "IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language".
>
> Nadim Kobeissi summed it up well in
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/XKikRaujzMZw7-tkz7WnQHbB2mk/
>
> His concluding remark from that message
>
> > This entire topic is harmful to the IETF’s collective psychology and
> > its ability to collaborate. The IESG should follow its mandate and
> > stop sowing discord among IETF members with these unnecessary,
> > tribalistic and mentally troubled topics. This discussion as a whole
> > has been nothing but a net harm to the IETF, and is causing
> > quantifiable damage to the ability of its members to work together to
> > produce a more performant, secure and indeed inclusive Internet.
>
> This BCP is just one more step towards this splintering.
>
> --
> venleg helsing,
> Kjetil T.
>
> --
> last-call mailing list
> last-call@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call
>

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