Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> Sat, 08 October 2022 05:06 UTC
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Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 22:06:32 -0700
From: Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
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Hi Ted, On 10/7/22 3:23 PM, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Fri, Oct 07, 2022 at 11:38:40AM -0700, Dan Harkins wrote: >> A study from McKinsey. Oh. >> >> "Good intentions are important, but the impacts of people’s actions >> are the true measure of goodness." >> >> The real danger of that it places the recipient of the message into an >> unimpeachable position of authority. While it's certainly possible that >> someone would be dishonest as to their intention in making a statement >> it is also possible that someone would be dishonest in how they >> perceived a remark-- stating that offense was taken when it really >> wasn't. But it's not possible to question how the recipient took it, >> otherwise you are not "validating someone's experience" or their "truth". >> And this can lead to targeted abuse of people where these kinds of >> "micro-aggressions" are fabricated in order to silence or punish >> someone. >> >> Sorry, I don't buy it. Intentions matter. > Dan, the problem with your position is that it's possible for the > sender to be dishonest about their intentions. And so unless we have > the ability mind-read, it's impossible for other people to figure out > what the sender's true intentions and motivations might be. And, if > that gives "senders" free license to say anything that might be > hurtful, or divisive, and be able to be able to say, "Whoops! I > didn't mean to hurt anyone", that's not really an acceptable outcome, > either. Yea but see, if someone is saying something nasty but simultaneously saying "but I didn't mean anything by that!" it's quite different than someone receiving an innocuous comment that was innocently made and claiming offense. My position is not to give license to nasty people, it's to protect people. Nasty people will obviously be nasty regardless of what they say their intention is. But innocent people can be wrongly accused and the problem is, there is little recourse possible because to push back is taken as "invalidating the victim's lived experience". If you accept that intentions take the backseat to how the comment was received you give carte blanche to targeted attacks. > In practice, with the way micro-agressions tend to be handled is that > folks are told --- look, the way that you said that was hurtful; could > you please refreain from doing that? But at also, whoever is > adjudicating matters will also tend to use a reasonable listener test. > It is reasonable to for someone to insert what is pretty obvious > divisive topic, like race, into a completely unrelated discussion, > like masking? Is it reasonable to assume that someone didn't realize > that this might be hurtful/divisive/trollish? Would it really > constrain someone's ability to express themselves if they were to > enjoined from using anologies of race in either technical discussions > of protocol or anti-COVID masking policies? It wasn't a technical discussion. It was about mask mandates on admin-discuss. > There have been those who probably believe that it doesn't pass the > laugh test that a senior engineer can't understand why injecting race > into an unrelated discussion might not be a socially appropriate thing > to do. Maybe that's a reasonable assumption, and maybe it's not. But > if someone believes very strongly that they should be able to inject > race into IETF discussions, and that there should be no constraints on > how they communicate ("Free speech!", I hear the cry), then this might > be one of the places where there may need to be social consequences > that need to be imposed. Race was brought into the terminology discussion much to my chagrin. > People of good will might disagree on where those lines might be > drawn; but if we believe that there *is* such a line based on decorum, > and that IETF lists shouldn't be a free-for-all ala certain Reddit and > 4Chan fora, then draw these lines we must. > > At least in my opinion, the fact that some of your posts have gone > beyond those lines, isn't even a close call. So if you will take a > bit of advice from someone who has worked with you quite a lot back in > the IPSEC days, I believe you will be much more successful if you were > to dial back some of your opinions about culture war related topics > within the IETF context. Yes, you're right, of course. > You're free to hold such beliefs; but the IETF really isn't the best > place to be trying convince people one way or another on such topics. > It's not likely to be successful, since it will be seen to be > off-topic, and it's going to get in the way of the technical > contributions you might want to make to this organization. The thing is Ted I'm not bringing this stuff up in a vacuum. Many of the "problematic" emails I'm accused of sending are in response to someone else injecting race into the IETF. I didn't write those Les White April Fools drafts because I wanted to inject race into the discussion, I did it because people were talking about "equity" and "inclusion" and I was asking how one goes about achieving said goals in the IETF and was met with silence. So those drafts were sarcastic examples of how you could go about achieving "equity". Yes, the admin-discuss email you're talking about above was not in response to anyone else directly but there was a distinct whiff of virtue signalling in much of the demands for masking and that was what I was responding to-- "hey, you can virtue signal your allyship simply by wearing a mask!" To say that is racist is wrong. There's nothing racist about it. But calling people "racist" is all the fad these days. It's the lazy retort used by people who think they hold a trump card in a debate. The word has been debased so much by improper use that it is borderline worthless anymore. Jay is just further debasing the unfortunate word. regards, Dan.
- [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against D… IETF Chair
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… David Schinazi
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Sander Steffann
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… David Schinazi
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… David Schinazi
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John Scudder
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ross Finlayson
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Stuart Cheshire
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tom Beecher
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Kjetil Torgrim Homme
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ben Campbell
- [Last-Call] Mail Archive Redirection (was Re: OT:… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Kjetil Torgrim Homme
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… tom petch
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Colin Perkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Colin Perkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 S Moonesamy
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Kjetil Torgrim Homme
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last Call… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last … Card, Stu
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Jay Daley
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was Re: L… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Jay Daley
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Jay Daley
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Leif Johansson
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… opens
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG S Moonesamy
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Fwd: OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last … Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Last-Call] Fwd: OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last … John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Call: B… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Timothy Mcsweeney
- [Last-Call] Conway's Law, Was: Global whitelist w… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Card, Stu
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- [Last-Call] Consensus call (was: Other stuff) Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… heasley
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Consensus call (was: Other stuff) Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Consensus call (was: Other stuff) Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action [snip] Rene Struik
- [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BCP 83… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Responsibility to whom? (was Consensu… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Vittorio Bertola
- [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re: Las… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Toerless Eckert
- [Last-Call] ESL (digression): Re: On satire, sarc… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… no noneee
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin