Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Valery Smyslov <> Wed, 26 October 2022 07:27 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF51C14CE23 for <>; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:27:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.106
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OwfcX1BbPlQ2 for <>; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0FDAC14EB1E for <>; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:27:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id j14so20585094ljh.12 for <>; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:27:26 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20210112; h=content-language:thread-index:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:to:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4MDTceV87gU5RKWFKTtr28yIUdVjmzLtcMiHUdFbGts=; b=R/DNeilBn/3FslM4FUOj4OwoozQ29qtW9QQZpnaW5m0A7Jk77OwWkH0ruuOZAZV2rl BY3ZrsP/y79c+b7nJXJylcsNiOLaFicLXKQvpDQlmgESyz9/RTl2v3U8evG/WwQeUX4T 2aTUcDfNNh6ilsw9PqHUYQ6vEFlIpTsUmR2GWqOgmaSGKxIeuFHvBb1/BaMMfmSRCkvv XcVwYbqIjTUUnXmUk98ITzmpK/MYdqWUCAiI1WvRR1gDlPVsrFKVeDq/cXK4EPOm/slY jQQHbe4XWoU7EbWvW3+uhMgtWzxf5HrvZu/XveblXMbWb6wCZ8DZoq4GfWGaF/Wz8ape Q4Rg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20210112; h=content-language:thread-index:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:to:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4MDTceV87gU5RKWFKTtr28yIUdVjmzLtcMiHUdFbGts=; b=xojIZ/UlPGKc72fXXZ6gVfjllP/gsjUXIysfo/AsEB+pgCtFz6VuOdgMBNa0hHPnsB 1ojbTOdsqM/ESJtqgHfrZW+imNnJkgeEJOB4aVIU838rL7UkLa5yBg6bFL77L68BKW/a ufAP0w349cukE5m3W6tvzqfVntnUF2071sOpz5gGwcGshgIIgCkSvIcaaTIHhw9hmo5g NhyxijtRcIQjyXkYP+Gnvu9FSjztvAtjeliDBbt6GVd44/cHEBCFhxg1e3C1NOJUkvZR pCqFzI5QEgRfj7zvOsJAi7DBnVfC0poa38YLFK7iIQ0+uftSlqf07HIAQtz6e0N4sNTc 48cg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf32bvcpCjzDHA1wXhvuUSJGtKKY0OIYMG4KFv1f55s3qzEbOoYX DndvNdXDeVCLWF5xdj260dWmuzSPgjA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7e23Y2/ptY4G4tKQfK1E56bC33664b7ItPiBD0McSowlHXht71mhAK+jaHie0dzQoJLgX/VA==
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:6e11:0:b0:277:44f:62b1 with SMTP id j17-20020a2e6e11000000b00277044f62b1mr7448025ljc.2.1666769242480; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:27:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from buildpc ([]) by with ESMTPSA id j26-20020a19f51a000000b00494618889c0sm742943lfb.42.2022. for <> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:27:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Valery Smyslov <>
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 10:27:22 +0300
Message-ID: <0d5d01d8e90c$64070290$2c1507b0$>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQKD49/Hw1bXLHHLfnuaBnXeNpCcY6y0sBlg
Content-Language: ru
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 07:27:31 -0000


I do not support this PR action.

I read the provided messages and I am not convinced that they justify the accusation of expressing racism.
And while I admit that many of these messages are harsh and sarcastic and sometimes are on the verge of acceptable
(definitely this verge is subjective), it seems to me that the sarcastic form of these messages was used by the author
to make his arguments more expressive. The arguments themselves often look worth to consider.

"Not only is it extremely cruel to persecute in this brief life those who do not think the way we do, 
but I do not know if it might be too presumptuous to declare their eternal damnation."

Voltaire, A Treatise on Toleration (1763), translated by Richard Hooker (excerpt)
or (full text)

Valery Smyslov.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: last-call [] On Behalf Of IETF Chair
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 7:16 PM
> To:
> Subject: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
> Following community feedback after various incidents, as documented below, the
> IESG has initiated a posting rights (PR) action that would restrict the posting
> rights of Dan Harkins, as per the procedures found in BCP 83 (RFC 3683).
> Specifically, his posting privileges to these lists would be suspended:
> * admin-discuss
> * gendispatch
> * ietf
> * terminology
> In the IESG's opinion, this individual has a history of sending emails that are
> inconsistent with the IETF Guidelines for Conduct (RFC 7154) and thereby
> "disrupt the consensus-driven process" (RFC 3683). Among these are contributions
> that:
> * Express racism in the form of denying, belittling, and ridiculing anti-racist
>   sentiment and efforts
> * Are rude and abusive, and often amount to insulting ridicule
> (Links to examples of such emails sent to the lists above during the last two
> years are provided at the end of this email.)
> Multiple attempts have been made to enter into a private discussion with this
> individual, both by IESG and community members, to communicate disquiet with his
> conduct on the lists. These attempts to restore respectful and courteous conduct
> on the lists have been rebuffed with communication that can be considered both
> antagonistic and hostile, and the pattern of behavior observed has continued.
> The IESG also notes that the following actions have already been taken in
> response to the individual's actions:
> * Two I-Ds were removed from the public archive due to their offensive nature:
>   (following these links displays the tombstone notice explaining their removal)
> * His posting rights were restricted on the admin-discuss mailing list:
> * A final public warning was issued on the gendispatch mailing list:
> None of the attempts to discuss his participation style or warn the individual
> have led to any improvements. The IESG therefore believes that a PR action is
> the correct response to his continued problematic behavior across a number of
> different lists.
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
> comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> mailing lists by 27 October 2022. Exceptionally, comments may
> be sent to instead. If sending private feedback to the IESG,
> please indicate if you would be open to having your comments anonymized and
> shared in a summary.
> Please note: Comments should be limited to the criteria described in BCP 83,
> notably on whether the individual in question has engaged in postings that are
> "unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" in a manner
> disruptive enough to warrant this action.
> Lars Eggert
> IETF Chair, on behalf of the IESG
> –-
> Examples of problematic emails during the last two years include:
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> --
> last-call mailing list