Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Keith Moore <> Tue, 04 October 2022 06:01 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29BEC152706 for <>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 23:01:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.903
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pXlTa_70ksko for <>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 23:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCB1CC152703 for <>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 23:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal []) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7765C01A3; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 02:01:41 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 04 Oct 2022 02:01:41 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; t=1664863301; x=1664949701; bh=D051q3n+ImHVHifbwxKVrLpTuCFz tefLNUB+gP1UymQ=; b=zqfoly9+QNpotnAgx0NZsV4YA7KOyZZyQD2kvvwfFXnI ztFTwHYPNrKqDQneX5cwaEvY4aLFCQEbyRs0dY4PfA+RnkcfJ00IUf1JO7YuugDf TgF6WvjuP/mwMnwRjujBtC/QOW6Jyzinbdxy2ZHmfPjPgwHKxtih9+9wUOdvuyVO fLOqUVlEf2poAQLjKBWNeULmNTwCX1XtjZDlUVMHF/GI5AOnArzWNzN2yfqaDGy1 mWnpFqN/YcIKjiVZqqwir+d1DdkoE15TNAE9Hjf3P7dIrBcC4nwC1onbW8SArSwm qIDbHuGst02oyG5BydEQXLSzhwFUJ1JELBmyKOieMQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:RMw7Y1liYF55IylBNrx4MLWaopHCRNqm5GFv4yyVJaRiGxNqgj6naA> <xme:RMw7Yw3yZ-efuOnZ1OFIOR2V5C-aWW3Zw6T-PNOO2d55MNboYGl1_i9aJErBQnSQl UwgLlJ6ddLWkg>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:RMw7Y7oVFkyCgN99BTKCFhWjj4DJamt2rXPL-oxlBmsOdzmd7vHr8sYZVmsRipJgFgACfZZc30iklL0RalI1N1SDiNVislqrL-r7hzyyzN8AB1iLx45V6g>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrfeeitddguddtfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpegtkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjsegrtderredtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghi thhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtoh hmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtffdtvddvieefffeigffhtdduudetheeigeeviefg gfegvdekiefhheefudejteenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmh grihhlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:RMw7Y1nIR9X4PMwmpCgXGLKuU0VPtE3UJkzKRFiQMiVKUhZV-fH_vA> <xmx:RMw7Yz0I4GlVeFLjcGG8kIBZS0wB6bb0SP8-5hRNC4KRfT91C7KqZQ> <xmx:RMw7Y0vs7FoHEV_mwvy8M8YrxDVahYp2WO-GTZ7-781oLvIMwW8jvw> <xmx:Rcw7Y0xwzIBpxmydZRIbNdYS6hey4NEdUzvg29463F1vwnEWEOvlAA>
Feedback-ID: i5d8c41f0:Fastmail
Received: by (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 02:01:40 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------Zp4LUWLwcjT9fyQ0EVzfaENX"
Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 02:01:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Adam Roach <>, John C Klensin <>, Brian E Carpenter <>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <>
Cc: Ted Lemon <>,
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <4D6C23FCA0D271F939E9E266@PSB> <> <>
From: Keith Moore <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 06:01:48 -0000

On 10/4/22 01:54, Adam Roach wrote:

>> I have sometimes been accused of endlessly repeating the same 
>> argument, when I was actually trying to refine and clarify the 
>> argument, attempting to improve it over time based on feedback. 
> That kind of refinement is entirely reasonable; and I agree that it's 
> part of finding consensus. I've been looking pretty closely at your 
> series of statements on this topic and trying to find the evolution in 
> your position, but am having difficulty doing so (which might be on me 
> or on you or some combination of the two). Perhaps it would be helpful 
> for readers seeking to identify such refinement -- and significantly 
> more efficient for you and other participants -- if future emails were 
> to simply explain where your position has evolved, and we can assume 
> that everything *else* you've previously said remains in effect. 
> Basically, the semantic equivalent of sending patch files instead of 
> an entire source code tree each time. 
To clarify, I haven't been doing that kind of refinement (so far) in 
most of my messages posted to /this/ thread.  So far.

What I've mostly been doing (in the background) is a detailed review of 
the messages cited in the Last Call, trying to figure out just what the 
supposed problems with those messages were. Without IESG having 
explicitly said what those problems were, that was essentially an 
exercise in guesswork, though I did find a few things that were at least 
subject to varying interpretation.   I plan to send that detailed review 
to iesg@ after a bit more polishing, with a request to keep it in 

Separately from that, I've been writing a public response to the Last 
Call.  I also plan to post that after another bit of polishing.

Although I really want to get back to paying work, I don't want to be in 
a hurry to send either message.  I think this is a serious enough 
subject that I should spend as much time as I can spare to make those 
messages as clear and well-supported as possible.