Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

opens@riw.us Tue, 11 October 2022 14:27 UTC

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From: opens@riw.us
To: 'Stephen Farrell' <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, 'Richard Barnes' <rlb@ipv.sx>, 'Leif Johansson' <leifj@mnt.se>
Cc: 'Adam Roach' <adam@nostrum.com>, 'Eliot Lear' <lear@lear.ch>, last-call@ietf.org, 'IETF Chair' <chair@ietf.org>
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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:27:02 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
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> really ought take into account the fact that our email
> lists are to some extent now a relatively minor part of
> a much bigger (and oftentimes engineered to be toxic)
> messaging and short message broadcast system.

Before we go changing BCPs, etc., we should probably think about the larger social picture, and whether this is a war the IETF wants to fight.

The "toxicity" of other venues isn't so much the problem (IMHO) as that we have two clearly distinct (and opposing) views of what the word "racism" means in western culture. Combining this with the current trend of calling anyone we don't agree with "toxic," and we end up turning all disagreement into "toxicity," and hence every place where people of different political beliefs interact into a "toxic environment." 

Comparing two quotes--

==
However, a positive white identity is an impossible goal. White identity is inherently racist; white people do not exist outside the system of white supremacy. This does not mean that we should stop identifying as white and start claiming only to be Italian or Irish. To do so is to deny the reality of racism in the here and now, and this denial would simply be color-blind racism. Rather, I strive to be “less white." 
White Fragility, pg 157-8
==

Versus--

==
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
==

In one case, colorblindness is racism, and a "positive white identity is an impossible goal." In the second, anything that treats people differently because of their skin color--anything other than colorblindness--is racist. 

I'm not arguing which view of the matter is correct. I'm actually not willing to have that discussion in email, on social media, or anything other than in person. 

I'm just pointing out our current conundrum--and trying to make certain we understand the waters we're wading into. 

Is this an argument we want to have here? 

ūüėä /r