Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 25 July 2020 12:09 UTC

Return-Path: <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D553A0FD8 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 05:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.co.uk
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4T45wL8VXFcr for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 05:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sonic306-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic306-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.205]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4150F3A0FD6 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 05:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s2048; t=1595678945; bh=TIOIz1Ey8xi0H2epPckeN2nY6nPul0a2kdYd0XYuaVg=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=nka58UWQ0pyc/trDO8dN0c3isno9YxGQfPj1crq8ICLJs5fsYi3zXP1t5ms87iMoGOLlfdKEusmk2kew16ok64S/fdbPv3EGBo4XVTzu3tTY394uAyZgA/iMrAlNtPLC5g3ZRj7xyta7xF0jj1/pGYr54yAIfKS+ZOoiV03E+RA5ukDTjmc3zsX7s2QvSijw0rsSyAThvrzjfSd4aoFBMXnMbsGVCJ8fQC6yrqvQi8Ko3z6T2SUynpdCdI9d5grb1YCBvYD5kyf9ARvUQSZBEchuYBHAv18bPpK2LLx8I/BkHbaKgdSrfz1HMFl0otZVFFY2U2W1ounlwzPKD24XGQ==
X-YMail-OSG: gWhQaBsVM1nysRR4YisDuEMEWj9eWcNAUHay1kya2rFy_RIqbowty3tj2807yXn wHbaXXFUAXBp_2Hz.vbvWAKzadBPyM9vQLoTZLGh7Bwr4dqjFs.TF0biTppRUtl_8BcJsp86Lvrb CNpDFm2OmU5mkyoUY.wPF_CEd8s2Nb55n8QLePuo5uPKp7FLTZDd_6poPJCwU_WyxcSl8uq3utxV 6W8UL5ts1JF2lUJWpAjm3fntpjQcnOhA.I0f7VM37boBgr0AGzL0o2iK9JtLZgg5urGS3zNDW5pK XMiY9NCw35Bxn0GdxBCKevAhMgEcIAsu_aPBoYgGFWic56hM4GzYKUnr4ZZLwmmPaEQWHJ60waaL qrXfH.6ORc3UzaRV7UN0dhKONQqj.SmjjlyM_FZD0q46OvY3AE5LMmjsuhvsJYFIg_OxGXVwOIXI zsbVKAh16Q7jOJoNY6Jjn2RiE76.21AjqMzl9JoM78ZbAsVW41mauSuYcVK.Fc.Y6SwMwzijriQl BzlGscLgAQP1wgX_PV2Zprl2wt_rFaBYUg.vqAWpKB64sWQ3wqlTXthnHBOjJ5xAvVfCGZUqa.Dl t2Ue4QPF6k2XBlVAiYk3tM3j2gH0JMTh.3WAjir9AsdXn49fympulJIQCSXk4oenqT_jxnBDXmJu ISdIvhKUNAaV3uTZPgBScEK7Z5Fwomeh2oSZ.rtdTj.BJ6ixRSBVg2lmrW.PtEB3ouQPHj8c3SFB 3aVsDMoy5pO4VDuqjtOqjirmuQTep71ae6rbHJHe7LJVwJKNNbdsG9hV465kX6zjUz0XfWMF1PTt cvBUjBTOOgHwMCdp6nII5bG.La.R8Bd96KEGlITu3fsv5klyqPIxwPbdhktoadzxiakUXTUjoRxF NA1cize963zBRK4iKbQekC3XdY0QiqqWGeRiXkxosWYErzZ5GKTrFzJNgYBSmAGfeuzcYK3.28Q7 YfhodN_.uIArdTl9sRfOJfPs7hOqqFO7cQu.1ZAPn37tAt53bAm34QPKJQXaNsAwlwvKO6Qptdil CvTRzsOTraTC3_FuhoGx3b7pVj01mc1IbZFu7z6QwWk2eUOouxRn0Z3pf8ObktcaTcWYtcJmL6dV W.wpG.VEFknt6HTN4wUpxLOxOrXhnQcPRfykiSWPrVAb85sNBn27QryN2cuQqHQTLkOuh_UOVnWw mGSzZkINDE7WZ4WYUWGbtczVXLuxw5gccoL_qRUxQnrvzfnb7mfm4sOCcSOigs15Bj7XhfH81N3n 7xKBd3iIRc3yHm3t_BynrZdL9yOLxefkfwWsJfeJG4SA11.n6uqKhN2o.6V0DytlYbbyxP9luWFk YJdgqxjz6BRXfHTPz2h19fo9LV56CAwpfkkyqysNjWRX_.g--
Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:09:05 +0000
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:08:59 +0000
From: lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <1766800185.10440854.1595678939174@mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <B927C56B-88F7-4E8F-B31A-A4029205B3F0@akamai.com>
References: <159552214576.23902.6025318815034036362@ietfa.amsl.com> <933ce8b4-78a5-76bf-55c3-7c5694faffbb@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <24325775-740E-469F-98C0-E9C8F8B9F169@akamai.com> <bc7197ab-78fd-bb86-6593-6ab948f5c5d3@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <028398F5-96A2-454B-8ED2-0592E57B84DA@akamai.com> <0e1733ce-151c-d63c-40f2-2b4739d4dee2@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <B927C56B-88F7-4E8F-B31A-A4029205B3F0@akamai.com>
Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10440853_918848979.1595678939173"
X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16271 YahooMailIosMobile Yahoo%20Mail/50233 CFNetwork/1126 Darwin/19.5.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/-dNDiTeN_PFep1YZQkmvZpt6Fn4>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:09:09 -0000

A while back, I was tasked with reviewing an academic paper that used the technical terminology of ‘master/slave’ to describe a process.
I found myself writing in my review that that terminology was no longer considered acceptable, and would just have to be replaced. And I was very aware, while typing out my friends-of-the-offended-and-oppressed piece, that I was was concocting this explanation to be read by the authors of the paper, who all had African heritage, and who attended a US educational institution in a US state considered remarkable for its previous use of slavery.
Those authors would clearly have far better and more nuanced perspectives on the mechanisms and oppression of racism and slavery than I ever will, not least from lived experiences. They had simply used technical terminology, they were clearly in agreement that that use was fine, and their paper was otherwise excellent.
So, once my review had explained to them that Black Lives Matter, and just how appalliing those terms were and how triggering and insensitive they were inadvertently being, I had fulfilled my solemn academic duty, and my head exploded from the irony of it all. 
I now believe that double-blind reviewing has its advantages, while continuing to distrust the intentions of those willing to censor language. It’s so Owellian ++ungood;

Lloyd Woodlloyd.wood@yahoo.co,uk
have we cancelled Star Wars because of its slaves yet?



I believe that it is still a mistake to use terms like blacklist/whitelist and master/slave in technology documentation.  I am not the only one who thinks so. There are some who believe this is not a mistake.  Oh well, that's why we have "rough consensus" here.  There are probably other terms and mindsets which have resulted in off-putting or even exclusionary behavior. I will not propose a list here (easy one: why our 1-1-1 policy doesn't include other continents?), but I would consider anything in that category to be a mistake. Likewise, treating slavery as purely a black/white issue through the lens of US history is also a mistake.

Hope this helps.