RE: USA dominion: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

"Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com> Sat, 01 August 2020 13:08 UTC

Return-Path: <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8743B3A0EBE for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 06:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.903
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fGH1rUuOTz8U for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 06:08:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr00138.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.0.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D7B13A0EBB for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 06:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=HlxVuvoZZ/Td6kO7ZCifcs+FiWD2owBVn1OtZLI81nCLvJ8pZRJbRRuzT4RXJUkuuRPKozNgUQqxK25eXpAkJTL+lEe8Kr/JxU0E9GUdEKRwHLQEQqyEkXOeRy+3OYYpza7Wwj6a0WLcIJEvcs/g+TW8MNrwD99lAtWtf8VdA7TVrcHO3tdCLuMIMbf8kFQfw3auXgHFvx13W5ZAAFjceEZmXCXPHfc2jhDg+jzc1qtTkndwhnV79Cf/W0N2HhoBtufYkF9uysEWf8qg998RNktmS52mC+3wRmsOxPKaKJ2iGd16cAPDnevoBeqThrMwCnYQVGn+MQtnbuEKNY6M6A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=+H56UZuNo41W945LbXXAw9ZZdVAeLljmtoB7KQDvVos=; b=iD5fkPuvlvTeoCEFpaEXGadIeu8xb2iVvTVxOkXlp83NgVAMuCivXKZC0jX0EM3iJeLcG3N03OEYMYObQ9Akf4B8PyQQ7IalqDdYkCpUt3qGWb5Abs45tQNeGcejUPvzekuc2HVRIWv4mujkAyBWxr1aLDKUtOKZ93wlUXPVFfcNcE0qTHOM2nLxec1KMyJdsS2Y4W1kHb7nTnF4iibpWY3agjAqfWN+Q0oyxMEz43dCkmMXjUdbk/EAw3nK83aLDeqp7edlvdDVtzuxNZMLoEOmoJ/Mqdqjblwdbia7u1AHZJLMI0tt93Q1rHYTg7dTxvUdet6Mp7pUmLTCuHmABg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nokia.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nokia.com; dkim=pass header.d=nokia.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=+H56UZuNo41W945LbXXAw9ZZdVAeLljmtoB7KQDvVos=; b=BYOEUoRRY1ES+ADbId27LiER6LShsD0fcDWmZ06J439vsupchlNWm7kP3OXalpOqI6S3DlJmNcQbSXfCl5L7xXg0V/NSHstTPUV69VQbqvKlg/0Q5670dhTnOhPP8u2CyPw85WAIY+Nw3XWMKm9AU7G66YwisANixL78mVTa2Z4=
Received: from VI1PR07MB5453.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:c2::19) by VI1PR07MB3344.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:802:1d::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3261.13; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:08:02 +0000
Received: from VI1PR07MB5453.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4143:6daa:a64d:3dba]) by VI1PR07MB5453.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4143:6daa:a64d:3dba%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3239.020; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:08:01 +0000
From: "Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com>
To: "Carlos M. Martinez" <carlosm3011@gmail.com>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
CC: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: USA dominion: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
Thread-Topic: USA dominion: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
Thread-Index: AQHWYQ92IHC54Qv9w0ab0qdAMJhVe6kViUIAgAB6egCAABPQAIAAB+eAgAC8EoCAAEk/gIAACOyAgAAEKoCAACd6AIAAAiyAgAEKmwCACKGTAIABF+YAgAEJ/yA=
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2020 13:08:01 +0000
Message-ID: <VI1PR07MB545390D99B9D484C75F1035D924F0@VI1PR07MB5453.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <35BE966B-63A2-438F-BD61-570E86ED2E1A@strayalpha.com> <297BF899-553D-44DB-AB56-04280F776F7A@employees.org> <6646575A-E6EA-4B4E-AC1B-F8B84B5A1203@strayalpha.com> <20200724225654.GB43465@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <52BB048D-A4F1-4CEF-B93D-35195C96B7F0@strayalpha.com> <CAJU8_nVWn7Kyh8omLiQVK9Q5DM1uBL7Qs45pi0y9U0tftt-uyw@mail.gmail.com> <4b8733f5-4356-2018-8e08-87e7596258ae@network-heretics.com> <31BDAD59-F5B3-4EB8-AAD7-ED77399E518C@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <31BDAD59-F5B3-4EB8-AAD7-ED77399E518C@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com;
x-originating-ip: [2a01:e0a:56e:a940:4000:fd1d:13f7:1a62]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9e2e1eb5-9d2d-4189-ce2d-08d8361beba7
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR07MB3344:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <VI1PR07MB3344D3A7B20D73601618083F924F0@VI1PR07MB3344.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Pw2FJlvkISCHfCP1du5cfuMdNN8mdumF6oqebMKipGOkJdrm/KPpGis39o+YtG3Iwwiv7Te5yuybRsHj2yY19FU1uROXpQMScyGIakBrggyM54uQXvqJ2L7DZsx3+I+UqC+E4J9xfFPa14a5HXWJlf0mhrHIBBJhAAjpRXoHZihQmPhNC6ZgRfJhcCtLz2b3Y3QXBpYYR6mwYH7AjHZV2GP27pnfk87OVnQjnnTIvlpxUBXebAJqAab904uzA1s9uf+kxxJLUlRlft8ciRbXOMmgyZix6vQWsRd0isHrC5+vHjoTX1gB56kcoyAHa9l2bbeuCi94cGyzn46MVR/Izw==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR07MB5453.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(376002)(39860400002)(346002)(396003)(366004)(66556008)(66946007)(66446008)(64756008)(8676002)(83380400001)(66476007)(186003)(9686003)(53546011)(2906002)(8936002)(71200400001)(7696005)(33656002)(86362001)(55016002)(478600001)(6506007)(76116006)(110136005)(52536014)(4744005)(5660300002)(4326008)(316002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR07MB5453.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9e2e1eb5-9d2d-4189-ce2d-08d8361beba7
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Aug 2020 13:08:01.5047 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: oRshryEsoMfAROvQG654KpfTjWNRgrGwHRelNyDBiHhVRDWourDBka/FgChlpLRWibWaW1lxw9fB5H8/LPfsOL+Z0ns2zHemsyIPynWE3/o=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3344
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/GazWS3G182L6G_97XstMR2C7Qps>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2020 13:08:14 -0000

On 30 Jul 2020, at 23:47, Keith Moore wrote:
> To me, part of what inclusion looks like is  _respectful tolerance of 
> differing views  _ _even though some of those views make some people 
> uncomfortable_.    I want to suggest that people being immediately 
> comfortable isn't an appropriate goal, because it always makes some 
> people uncomfortable that there are multiple valid perspectives on a 
> subject.  Instead, the community needs to cultivate a willingness to 
> be uncomfortable when it is done in the service of accommodating 
> different views and building rough consensus.

Completely agree.
JM.