Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> Sun, 09 August 2020 19:49 UTC

Return-Path: <dharkins@lounge.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A0B3A0D38 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.849
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jsqcVtLgV2fl for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from www.goatley.com (www.goatley.com [198.137.202.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D46A3A0D31 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from trixy.bergandi.net (cpe-76-176-14-122.san.res.rr.com [76.176.14.122]) by wwwlocal.goatley.com (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTP id <0QET1TDK2B2JZ7@wwwlocal.goatley.com> for ietf@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2020 14:49:32 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from Dans-MacBook-Pro.local ([69.12.173.8]) by trixy.bergandi.net (PMDF V6.7-x01 #2433) with ESMTPSA id <0QET00F6JBF7K4@trixy.bergandi.net> for ietf@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2020 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net ([69.12.173.8] EXTERNAL) (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) with TLS/SSL by trixy.bergandi.net ([10.0.42.18]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Sun, 09 Aug 2020 12:57:07 -0700
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 12:49:30 -0700
From: Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
In-reply-to: <DEC952F4-379C-4C97-8772-DA6C556A3AF1@strayalpha.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Message-id: <45d477cb-7cca-55c7-c4f1-d12cab784997@lounge.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-language: en-US
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (recv=trixy.bergandi.net, send-ip=69.12.173.8)
X-PMAS-External-Auth: 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net [69.12.173.8] (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local)
References: <20200809175214.GA3100@localhost> <DEC952F4-379C-4C97-8772-DA6C556A3AF1@strayalpha.com>
X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [200808b] (trixy.bergandi.net)
X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/VNKNmQ7ZiF7bnjxJJdMxTlmbfqo>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 19:49:33 -0000

On 8/9/20 12:23 PM, Joe Touch wrote:
>> On Aug 9, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> wrote:
>>
>>   Really, asserting that "master secret"
>> is problematic is simply credibility-destroying.
> Besides your concern, how does one secret actively control another?
>
> Or is it just that there is one root key from which others are derived?
>
> Ie why even bother defending a term that’s inaccurate to start?

   It's not inaccurate.

   In locksmithing a "master key" is one that opens all the doors while a
non-master key (which is not called a "slave key" by the way) only opens
the door it is milled for.

   Analogously, in cryptology a key can be a "master key" if possession of
it can be used to decrypt all the different traffic flows and a non-master
key (which is also not called a "slave key") only decrypts the flow it
was generated for. It's a great term.

   You can even get key hierarchies and the analogy holds. There could be
one key for all doors in the building and separate keys for all doors on
particular floors and then keys that are specific for particular doors.
Similarly you could have a key that could be used to decrypt all flows on
all cluster members, a separate key that could be used to decrypt all
flows on one cluster, and flow-specific keys that just decrypt one
individual flow on one cluster. It's a great term.

   Asserting that use of "master key" or "master secret" is a problem or
that it somehow "discourages participation in the IETF" (which is what has
been asserted for this new category of Problematic Words) is absurd!

   Dan.