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Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Mon, 27 July 2020 15:51 UTC

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References: <45882975-e4d1-045f-2556-d8defee22c91@lounge.org> <1BE15CF8-ECA3-48E7-BCEF-145EADF6D2EC@nohats.ca> <1DAF1E86-1C9B-4EE4-9356-260774BC9A01@icloud.com> <CAL02cgQYVkDPfEc3N2MemCZc8_QWmmvOk=zC2Do98=9gHZO9wQ@mail.gmail.com> <DD271779-2D9F-430E-9AE0-314C36961E80@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <DD271779-2D9F-430E-9AE0-314C36961E80@strayalpha.com>
From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:51:09 -0400
Message-ID: <CAL02cgRb1BBphPH+54fof8yBewbrHanySuVQV_tekWdTuzak8w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
To: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
Cc: Carrick Bartle <cbartle891=40icloud.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
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Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your allusion here, Joe, but it sounds to me
like you're saying "if you can't keep up with the threads (only 'try'ing),
GTFO."

Assuming I'm reading you correctly, that is a big dimension the exclusion
that folks are noting here.

--Richard

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:30 AM Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:

> Speaking of Lord of the Rings, I’ve realized this community seems to be
> inspired by the Ents (with liberties):
>
> “It takes a long time to say anything in IETFish. And we *NEVER* say
> anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say.:”
>
> I take my inspiration from Yoda (and not should everyone?):
>
> “Do or do not. There is no try."
>
> Joe
>
> On Jul 27, 2020, at 7:42 AM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:41 AM Carrick Bartle <cbartle891=
> 40icloud.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> I agree.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 27, 2020, at 7:02 AM, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Jul 27, 2020, at 09:10, Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "harm" not found.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, this thread has already harmed the IETF community. Not
>> only by showing a lack of empathy to try and be more inclusive when the
>> costs are low, but also by showing how toxic discussions can get at IETF.
>> >
>> > unfortunately, cultural change is very slow.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>>
>

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