Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

[S Moonesamy <[e-mail]>]

Hi Nico, Fernando,
At 02:25 PM 28-07-2020, Nico Williams wrote:
>In regards to "folks"?!

Yes.  Please see 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/kSG5GfCE5ozrD-mRiJ4lGu-E9zY/

>I'm from Argentina.  I spent 15 years in the NYC area.  I've since been
>living in Texas.  I use Texas-isms all the time to demonstrate comfort.
>
>Yes, I suppose I could use "y'all" and "folks" to talk-down-to, or sign
>"Cheers," (an Ozzie-ism?) as in "bleep off", and perhaps I have, but I
>also sign "Cheers," frequently out of habit, as a positive note.  Because:

The words which you mentioned above would likely be used by people 
who have some affinity with a geographical area.

There are a few English sentences (unrelated to what you wrote) which 
I regarded as friendly.  I have a different opinion nowadays.

>Well, context simply matters.  Much language is dual-use!  :)

Yes.

>Intent also matters.  Lack of intent to offend does not mean offense
>won't be received, and it does not mean that the first person shouldn't
>consider adapting their speech to avoid giving further offense when they
>learn of it, nor does it mean that the second person shouldn't learn to
>identify contexts that make the apparently-offensive speech not-quite-
>so.  Lack of intent certainly means we should be open to forgiveness.

Should previous complaints be taken into account?  Should the 
differences in culture be taken into account?

>Empathy requires we make an effort to assume good faith, and that we be
>open to learning and forgiving.

There is a message at 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/eligibility-discuss/PJJ3GuNKOlcNrmu1ETZeTINFHwY/ 
If that is the principle which reflects reality, I doubt that anyone 
who falls outside it would be open to forgiveness.

At 02:57 PM 28-07-2020, Fernando Gont wrote:
>I guess much of this issue would be solved by applying Postel's Principle?

I don't think so as the principle was established for a different context.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy