Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Wed, 29 July 2020 12:06 UTC

Return-Path: <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48653A09D7 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 05:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.989
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yo4um2zhts_8 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 05:06:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp [131.112.32.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A1D13A09DC for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 05:06:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 11155 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2020 11:48:32 -0000
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (131.112.32.132) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Jul 2020 11:48:32 -0000
Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
To: Frode Kileng <frodek@tele.no>
Cc: IETF Best Practices <ietf@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
References: <933ce8b4-78a5-76bf-55c3-7c5694faffbb@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <267BCA35-3A3F-440B-9F5F-2C818D5AE71A@icloud.com> <e7956fd8-2639-3df6-9539-0dd483cafa25@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <34CF64D6-10F3-4F45-B592-FA14C911DB0B@chopps.org> <c18fc227-7da0-1487-a2ae-74de1ac73759@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <CALaySJ+UbSP5nJungBae053q7W_VQ-8yx2pr+KP6S+G81_1_VA@mail.gmail.com> <fd61e3b0-ebe3-2c52-8db0-0b5e0428f6a9@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <aa3f0cf0-0052-37a7-2d2f-61a64842405c@tele.no>
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <7e0fde8f-43f0-ccfa-84ad-0c1264db2836@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 21:06:45 +0900
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <aa3f0cf0-0052-37a7-2d2f-61a64842405c@tele.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"; format="flowed"; delsp="yes"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/ok6L-fTnTdKw7DbSsO8aTq0sqzw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 12:06:22 -0000

Frode Kileng wrote:

> Sorry, but I it's time to speak up.
> 
> On 29/07/2020 10:50, Masataka Ohta wrote:
>> Barry Leiba wrote:
>>
>> > - What would you want the IETF community to do with respect to the
>> > Internet draft in question:
>>
>> Treat it as something written by noisy minority.
> 
> I strongly disagree. This is a real issue that needs to be addressed.

How can you disagree by not quoting my reasonings such as:

: But, considering that most other people, both blacks and whites,
: in US are enjoying Thriller, the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars
: and all the fantasies and FRPGs with such words of "dark lord",
: "black magician" and "dark side of force", there is no such
: culture in US to avoid saying black/dark with negative meaning.

without which, we can't have constructive discussion.

Or, do you agree with me on my points on US culture above?

Then, where is the "real issue"?

Note that, IMHO, most people in US, including blacks, are wise
enough to be able to enjoy terms of "dark lord", "black magician",
"dark side of force",without discriminating people with black skin
just as rest of us can do for people with black cloths.

If you might think they weren't so wise, that could be the worst
kind of discrimination of you.

Then, where is the point to ban "blacklist", "master/slave flip
flop" or "dark web"?

						Masataka Ohta