Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

[Nico Williams <[e-mail]>]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:19:59AM -0700, S Moonesamy wrote:
> At 05:11 AM 28-07-2020, Salz, Rich wrote:
> > Not all.  Sometimes we are trying to establish a rapport by using
> > informal language.  Trying to add a little informality to a fairly rigid
> > communications system.  Not unlike an IETF bar conversation.  HOWEVER,
> > I've since learned that the term is offensive to some and I am going to
> > try to find other words.

In regards to "folks"?!

I'm from Argentina.  I spent 15 years in the NYC area.  I've since been
living in Texas.  I use Texas-isms all the time to demonstrate comfort.

Yes, I suppose I could use "y'all" and "folks" to talk-down-to, or sign
"Cheers," (an Ozzie-ism?) as in "bleep off", and perhaps I have, but I
also sign "Cheers," frequently out of habit, as a positive note.  Because:

> It is difficult to determine which of the two opinions about slang and
> contractions is true.

Well, context simply matters.  Much language is dual-use!  :)

Intent also matters.  Lack of intent to offend does not mean offense
won't be received, and it does not mean that the first person shouldn't
consider adapting their speech to avoid giving further offense when they
learn of it, nor does it mean that the second person shouldn't learn to
identify contexts that make the apparently-offensive speech not-quite-
so.  Lack of intent certainly means we should be open to forgiveness.

Empathy requires we make an effort to assume good faith, and that we be
open to learning and forgiving.

> > Perhaps we can assume good intentions all around?
> 
> The usual response, in the IETF, is that a complainant could assume that the
> action (or content of a message) was in good faith.  I asked someone else to
> review a few messages (unrelated to this thread).  The messages were
> described as condescending.

+1e6.

Plus, I know condescencion when I see it; I've seen plenty.  And, I
always know it when I sometimes even express it myself.  (Imagine that,
me being human.)

Nico
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