IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Wed, 29 July 2020 15:32 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7053A0BD0 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 08:32:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ZiFcxO7hzvM for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 08:32:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cadetblue.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (cadetblue.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3286F3A0BC8 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 08:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE7E20965; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:32:11 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-7-27.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.7.27]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C9B482157A; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:32:08 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:32:11 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost
X-Fumbling-Juvenile: 0997526f37b3d3e6_1596036731329_1036037095
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1596036731329:3766564889
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1596036731329
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BED280638; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=E1oT+MEzpqRwO8 vrXKlg2la6AkU=; b=abWFwvW6bQXUhGUKvp6ZxDmOEsMGkO21bCf67hiWcONhNp pySPRZEq58/ngG9mAG8h8StGW9E22gTD3bD4VmhcHHFxrwKZnkJCRn/rie01NMRh hgHJP9y/7rj2yzoJdrtcVpZPyxsFsKNlZ3LXqCLF+ySyq97Huevq41P/eBVvM=
Received: from localhost (unknown [24.28.108.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5528880626; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 08:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 10:32:01 -0500
X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a39
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk, Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
Message-ID: <20200729153200.GK3100@localhost>
References: <CABmDk8=HBbOnEMprWfi7u4gtCbS1u-HW2watN48-SVG+9AtdAQ@mail.gmail.com> <2075838754.11970423.1595891262683@mail.yahoo.com> <76D06CB1-6A36-4FA1-972B-02E2CBE6FB41@gmail.com> <1390423269.12257387.1595931939454@mail.yahoo.com> <315DB65A-EDB9-4605-8CAB-DC80D76FADAC@akamai.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200728091207.10165f08@elandnews.com> <20200728212507.GG3100@localhost> <6.2.5.6.2.20200728152504.0c1b56e0@elandnews.com> <20200729032626.GJ3100@localhost> <6.2.5.6.2.20200729052025.0adfd8e8@elandnews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200729052025.0adfd8e8@elandnews.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28)
X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK
X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100
X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedrieeggdeltdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujggfsehttdertddtredvnecuhfhrohhmpefpihgtohcuhghilhhlihgrmhhsuceonhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepfefgtdegtddugeeujeevtefggeehheeuieeuheeukeehheffgeejiedtjeeuvedtnecuffhomhgrihhnpegslhhoohhmsggvrhhgrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvgedrvdekrddutdekrddukeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplhhotggrlhhhohhsthdpihhnvghtpedvgedrvdekrddutdekrddukeefpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpefpihgtohcuhghilhhlihgrmhhsuceonhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepnhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomhdpnhhrtghpthhtohepnhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomh
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/dIHvClHWJnKrcHwtAU5JrEEEjso>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:32:15 -0000

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 06:33:32AM -0700, S Moonesamy wrote:
> At 08:26 PM 28-07-2020, Nico Williams wrote:
> > [I'm not seeing enough context there to understand what you're referring
> > to, and I'm not going to read that thread just to see it.  Can you
> > summarize what's going on here.  I do understand about recall petitions,
> > but that entire subject is rather inside baseball compared to this
> > thread.  In particular I'm not seeing what forgiveness has to do with
> > Pete's post that you linked to.]
> 
> I came across the following well before this thread was started: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2013-12-30/2013-offensive-cliche-winner-is-skin-in-the-game-
> It was argued that the phrase, which is found in the message I referenced,
> is an euphemism for "callous".  That is at odds with "empathic".

Time for Newspeak then.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email