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Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> Fri, 24 July 2020 13:36 UTC

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From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
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Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:36:19 -0400
In-Reply-To: <20e0ba36-ad8d-422a-b0da-aeb8dd1196c1@dogfood.fastmail.com>
Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, ietf@ietf.org
To: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
References: <933ce8b4-78a5-76bf-55c3-7c5694faffbb@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <267BCA35-3A3F-440B-9F5F-2C818D5AE71A@icloud.com> <20e0ba36-ad8d-422a-b0da-aeb8dd1196c1@dogfood.fastmail.com>
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The impact of simply reading the terms master and slave over and over, is perhaps proportional to the impact slavery has had directly on a persons life (e.g., the racism that continues to exist today). So it's not surprising that some of us might not have recognized the impact those terms had on others who have had different life experiences.

Thanks,
Chris.

> On Jul 24, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, at 16:12, Carrick Bartle wrote:
>> I think we can all agree that slavery is bad, right? So why should we even allude to it in technical documents?
> 
> We can all agree that slavery of humans is bad, but I own my cat and when I say he's not allowed on the table he's damn well not allowed on the table (at least when I'm in the room, I'm pretty sure he parties on there when I'm out).
> 
> Is he my slave?  I'm certainly the boss of him and can put him in a little cage against his will and take him to the vet to get his balls chopped off.
> 
> So yep, I'm against the slavery of humans (while acknowledging that there's equipment right here on the desk in front of me, and clothing on my body, which was almost certainly made by people who live as slaves for all intents and purposes).
> 
> Language evolves, and I'm happy to evolve along with it, but let's not go conflating "the sale and bondage of human beings is bad" with "the concept of non-human entities having complete control over other non-human entities is bad".
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bron.
> 
> (and I never call my cat a slave, but I do call him other unsavoury things that don't belong in an RFC when he shoves his smelly butt at my face while I'm trying to focus on a call)
> 
> --
>   Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd
>   brong@fastmailteam.com <mailto:brong@fastmailteam.com>

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