Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Fri, 24 July 2020 17:13 UTC

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From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
Thread-Topic: IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language
Thread-Index: AQHWYQ9qtd6kdf2qrEa/XteDIWlbrqkWgT+AgABDjgCAAEcVgP//vZaAgABsiAD//8M4gA==
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 17:12:55 +0000
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References: <159552214576.23902.6025318815034036362@ietfa.amsl.com> <933ce8b4-78a5-76bf-55c3-7c5694faffbb@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <24325775-740E-469F-98C0-E9C8F8B9F169@akamai.com> <bc7197ab-78fd-bb86-6593-6ab948f5c5d3@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <028398F5-96A2-454B-8ED2-0592E57B84DA@akamai.com> <0e1733ce-151c-d63c-40f2-2b4739d4dee2@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
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>    As I already expressed my viewpoint here in IETF list where the
    draft is now under discussion, how can you say the viewpoint be
    brought to discussion of the draft?

Well, one can hope that if the document is adopted somewhere, that the people in the WG/RG/Program/whatever will recall all the IETF talks.  Or, one can participate.  Trade-offs and limitations in each approach, as is usual.

    >> and I was explaining why we should address some mistakes of the
    >> past. That doesn't mean ignoring other mistakes;

>    I can see no mistakes. Could you elaborate what "some" and "other"
>    mistakes are?

I believe that it is still a mistake to use terms like blacklist/whitelist and master/slave in technology documentation.  I am not the only one who thinks so. There are some who believe this is not a mistake.  Oh well, that's why we have "rough consensus" here.  There are probably other terms and mindsets which have resulted in off-putting or even exclusionary behavior. I will not propose a list here (easy one: why our 1-1-1 policy doesn't include other continents?), but I would consider anything in that category to be a mistake. Likewise, treating slavery as purely a black/white issue through the lens of US history is also a mistake.

Hope this helps.